Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

We need more explosive plays and these guys just don't cut it in that department.

You wouldn't be relying on them as deep threats or 'explosive' players.
Moss is a move around guy at this point and his greatest production is from the slot.
Armstrong and Hankerson would be the 'vertical' WRs.
But, its all moot anyway.

The additions of Garcon and Morgan without a doubt improve the WRs corps.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

And Gaffney isn't a big yards after the catch guy either. W

This is what it boils down to. YAC.


LOL @ Moss & Gaffney as deep threats. Needed that laugh today.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

This is what it boils down to. YAC.

Lets keep some perspective here.
Moss has always been one of the better YAC receivers.

[mbedner3420]

I hope we add Tommy Streeter to the roster and let him develop for a year or two.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lets keep some perspective here.
Moss has always been one of the better YAC receivers.

If anything Kyle's system has limited YAC among the WR corp. Many routes put the WR/slot receiver underneath the safeties or even the line backers.

...anyways as you said Tana boasts solid YAC through his career. NC doesn't know what he's talking about.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lets keep some perspective here.
Moss has always been one of the better YAC receivers.

When he was in his prime, sure. But he appears to be on the decline. More on the topic:

Redskins looking for more YAC? - NFC East Blog - ESPN

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 30gut

You wouldn't be relying on them as deep threats or 'explosive' players.
Moss is a move around guy at this point and his greatest production is from the slot.
Armstrong and Hankerson would be the 'vertical' WRs.
But, its all moot anyway.

The additions of Garcon and Morgan without a doubt improve the WRs corps.

I know, but I wasn't trying to argue that point.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 30gut

For me its a question of team building philosophy.

Our OL last year was better then the year prior.

But, if I'm building an offense and a team around a young QB I want to aim higher then being better then terrible along the OL.

Griffin would provide an automatic boost to the passing game by himself.
No one is saying Gaffney and Moss are top level WRs.
But if they can be productive with McNabb and Rex then they'll be productive with Griff.
We build the OL ride with Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong give Hankerson a chance to develop and draft a WR.
But the focus would be on upgrading the OL specifically the RT but addressing RG would've been good also.

I like Garcon and Morgan, don't get me wrong.
But I would have prefered to improve the OL this year then address WR next year after we see what we have in Hankerson and the other WRs.

I don't understand this line of thinking.. If we got better offensive linemen would that make Moss or Gaffney younger or more explosive after the catch? Would that make Armstrong more capable of beating press coverage? Would that make Austin or Paul or Robinson any better route runners or more prepared to play WR at the NFL level?

A 'better offensive line' probably gets a QB an extra .5 to .625 more of a second to throw than what we were trotting out there last year. Our offense isn't a 7 step, wait til someone gets open offense. It's based on timing rhythm and yards after the catch. Sure it could improve but it wouldn't make our WR any more skilled.

Outside of Hankerson (who we don't quite know yet what he can do over 16 games) the existing limitations of our current WR group is pretty clear..

Gaffney-Limited explosiveness, little to no deep speed, limited YAC
Moss-Less explosive than 2 yrs ago, no longer a deep threat, injuries, drops
Armstrong-Runs one route, can't get off the line, questionable hands at times
Austin-Hasn't developed beyond a #4 WR in 2 years, as a 7th rounder that's probably his cap
Paul-Needs to develop his route running and overall game, wasn't considered to be a threat for the top 2 spots in the WR rotation anyways.
Robinson-Has speed but needs a great camp to make the team as a PS player in '11 and a lower round draft pick.
Banks-Has the build of a 5th grader.

Exactly what was the problem in upgrading our worst (other than QB) overall position group?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lets keep some perspective here.
Moss has always been one of the better YAC receivers.

Let's keep this in perspective. The year is 2012.

"Has" should be replaced with "was" in your sentence.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't understand this line of thinking.. If we got better offensive linemen would that make Moss or Gaffney younger or more explosive after the catch? Would that make Armstrong more capable of beating press coverage? Would that make Austin or Paul or Robinson any better route runners or more prepared to play WR at the NFL level?

A 'better offensive line' probably gets a QB an extra .5 to .625 more of a second to throw than what we were trotting out there last year. Our offense isn't a 7 step, wait til someone gets open offense. It's based on timing rhythm and yards after the catch. Sure it could improve but it wouldn't make our WR any more skilled.

Outside of Hankerson (who we don't quite know yet what he can do over 16 games) the existing limitations of our current WR group is pretty clear..

Gaffney-Limited explosiveness, little to no deep speed, limited YAC
Moss-Less explosive than 2 yrs ago, no longer a deep threat, injuries, drops
Armstrong-Runs one route, can't get off the line, questionable hands at times
Austin-Hasn't developed beyond a #4 WR in 2 years, as a 7th rounder that's probably his cap
Paul-Needs to develop his route running and overall game, wasn't considered to be a threat for the top 2 spots in the WR rotation anyways.
Robinson-Has speed but needs a great camp to make the team as a PS player in '11 and a lower round draft pick.
Banks-Has the build of a 5th grader.

Exactly what was the problem in upgrading our worst (other than QB) overall position group?

Yeah this team needs playmakers And not every team has a Great oline, GB doesn't And they do just fine

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I know, but I wasn't trying to argue that point.

Then I'm at a loss:

Originally Posted by Mattyk

When he was in his prime, sure. But he appears to be on the decline. More on the topic:

Redskins looking for more YAC? - NFC East Blog - ESPN

Maybe Moss is on the decline.
But the man broken his hand this year and still hand a relatively productive season.
The year prior he was top 10 in yards and receptions.
From 2008-2010 his YAC 5.5, 5.4, 5.4 then this year while playing through a broken hand it dropped to 4.4.
I don't see this year as a 'decline' year but as an injured year.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I don't understand this line of thinking...Exactly what was the problem in upgrading our worst (other than QB) overall position group?

To answer your question about the 'problem':

Given the limited resources avaibable in FA especially a FA that has been truncated by 16+ million dollars and that FA is a zero sum game where one acquisition often limits or prevents another WR imo is lower on the team building totem poll then other positions especially OL and ILB.

In your haste to disagree I feel like you didn't even read my post as most of your premises/(rhetorical) questions have nothing to do with my points.

I said nothing about the OL making the WRs more explosive or any of the things you said.

I'll restate my points if I wasn't clear before:

o For me its a question of team building philosophy.

o For me improving pass protection is more important then upgrading the WRs



BTW-
How did Armstrong end with 19.8 ypc 2 years ago?
Pretty good for a guy that 'can't get off press'

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 30gut

BTW-
How did Armstrong end with 19.8 ypc 2 years ago?
Pretty good for a guy that 'can't get off press'

Because teams hadn't caught up to his weaknesses. That following year they realize he can't get off the bump press at the line of scrimmage, his stats and usefulness plummeted. This has been verified by several insiders that I follow. Don't expect Armstrong to be around unless he's found a way to get past the bump coverage at the LOS.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 30gut

To answer your question about the 'problem':

Given the limited resources avaibable in FA especially a FA that has been truncated by 16+ million dollars and that FA is a zero sum game where one acquisition often limits or prevents another WR imo is lower on the team building totem poll then other positions especially OL and ILB.

In your haste to disagree I feel like you didn't even read my post as most of your premises/(rhetorical) questions have nothing to do with my points.

I said nothing about the OL making the WRs more explosive or any of the things you said.

I'll restate my points if I wasn't clear before:

o For me its a question of team building philosophy.

o For me improving pass protection is more important then upgrading the WRs



BTW-
How did Armstrong end with 19.8 ypc 2 years ago?
Pretty good for a guy that 'can't get off press'

So let me restate my question to align with your points. What improvement do you expect from the same WR personnel with improved pass protection? What's wrong with the philosophy of improving your weakest position group?

Here's the problem with citing 2010 Armstrong and Moss stats. It's 2012. You can't ignore a year and say, but they used to be good. Moss had a bunch of drops (pre and post hand injury) and his YPC was actually 2 yards better post injury (11.4 vs. 13.5) so the 'injured year' statement doesn't hold much water.

[Ruhskins]

People need to understand that our WRs were not scaring anyone last year. Granted, that neither was Rex Grossman. However, our o-line problems last year were mostly due to these two factors.

No defense in the NFL was worried about having one of their corners one-on-one with our WRs, I would say that many of them dared us to throw b/c they knew that we didn't have a playmaker at wideout and that Rexy was good for a pick or two each game.

I feel that we've addressed these one of these issues in free agency with these wideouts, not to mention the potential we have in Hank and Davis. Now in the draft we will bring a signal caller that has good accuracy and will benefit from having a good wideout group to throw to. RG3 will very likely not hold the ball too long or be inaccurate, which have been the two mistakes that have been killing our o-line and QB play forever.