What's your take on our coaching?

[The Goat]

IF we start Beck I would hope the scheme won't be so much max protect (because he's far more mobile than Rex) and we can open things up more.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Goat:

When Mike Shanahan showed up in San Fran to be the offensive coordinator, the QB was Steve Young. And there was some guy named Rice on the team too... Let's just say, there wasn't much that needed "fixing".

When Mike Shanahan showed up in Denver to be the head coach, John Elway was the QB. And there were guys named Davis and Sharpe on the team too... Let's just say there wasn't much that needed "fixing".

When Mike Shanahan showed up here in DC, he had Jason Campbell to deal with and no WRs worth the time of day, and he decided that was not going to work for him. Hey, if you are used to having Young and Elway waiting for you, I can see how a welcoming committee of Jason Campbell would surely be "disappointing".

The problem is that Mike Shanahan made a bet and lost that bet. The bet was that Donovan McNabb had two or three good years left in him and that would give Shanahan the time to find a free-agent or a kid in the draft or a guy in the Canadian League or an Arena Leaguer or...

Last year when he benched McNabb in the Detroit game with 2 minutes to play, the most prominent reaction was along the lines of:

OK, he benched McNabb because he wasn't playing well but WTF HE PUT IN REX "BLEEPING" GROSSMAN!!

Shanahan's problem is that he does not have a top-shelf QB on the roster. He is going to say all the right things about Grossman and Beck and Clemens and any other guy who is here on the roster with a QB label on him; that is what coaches do. Those pronouncements do not change the facts however; he does not have a good QB to play yet.

The effect of his "losing the bet" on McNabb will wear off at the end of this year when he can figure out what his next wager will be. Right now, he is hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with one of these guys getting on a streak where one of them plays WAAY over their heads for a 10-game stretch. It can happen; it's not likely to happen, but it can happen.

Don't be too angry. He actually did have a plan when he came here as to how he was going to make the offense better. He implemented that plan and lost his bet on the key guy in the plan. That is a minor hiccup and not a fatal flaw...

Well, let's not gloss over the fact Shanahan drafted guys like Davis and Sharpe. The Broncos were floundering around the .500 mark for the prior 3 seasons before he got there too.


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[SirClintonPortis]

We need some rain games. That way Mike can pester his son without worry about running the ball.

[WilbursHomie]

I'll be able to answer this one a lot better tomorrow after Mike says who he's starting at QB. On paper it's obvious, but apparently Rex has the locker room. I don't know why? Maybe because he predicted us to win the east early but those guys love the confidence. I bet he gets the slow, inaccurate nod tomorrow.

[That Guy]

honestly after that last showing, i wouldn't be surprised or upset either way. I just want whoever they roll out there on sunday to not be embarrassing, and, of course, to get a win.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Well, let's not gloss over the fact Shanahan drafted guys like Davis and Sharpe. The Broncos were floundering around the .500 mark for the prior 3 seasons before he got there too.


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It is a bit of a stretch to say that as an assistant coach with the Broncos in the early 90s that Shanahan drafted Shannon Sharpe. But if you want to say that he was at least a part of the decision process that selected Sharpe, fine.

The fact remains that when he took over the Broncos as the head coach, he had a Hall of Fame QB already there and a Hall of Fame TE already there and a rookie RB who might someday get into the Hall of Fame because he did have one season with 2000+ yards gained.

That is a far cry from what Mike Shanahan found here in Washington at the end of the Jim Zorn/Vinny Cerrato era. He had a ton of work to do; he still does have a ton of work to do. There is progress - - but the Redskins are not yet close to being an elite team in the Shanahan era.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

It is a bit of a stretch to say that as an assistant coach with the Broncos in the early 90s that Shanahan drafted Shannon Sharpe. But if you want to say that he was at least a part of the decision process that selected Sharpe, fine.

The fact remains that when he took over the Broncos as the head coach, he had a Hall of Fame QB already there and a Hall of Fame TE already there and a rookie RB who might someday get into the Hall of Fame because he did have one season with 2000+ yards gained.

That is a far cry from what Mike Shanahan found here in Washington at the end of the Jim Zorn/Vinny Cerrato era. He had a ton of work to do; he still does have a ton of work to do. There is progress - - but the Redskins are not yet close to being an elite team in the Shanahan era.

I think the bottom line in regards to our situation, which you pretty well cover in your posts, is that Mike hasn't developed a franchise QB. Montana and Elway were waiting for him, and I don't see Cutler as a franchise type that could lead his team to a championship. That's not to say he can't do it, and who knows maybe Kyle is great w/ QBs.

Now that Beck is the starter it'll be very interesting to see how he progresses under Mike and Kyle.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

It is a bit of a stretch to say that as an assistant coach with the Broncos in the early 90s that Shanahan drafted Shannon Sharpe. But if you want to say that he was at least a part of the decision process that selected Sharpe, fine.

The fact remains that when he took over the Broncos as the head coach, he had a Hall of Fame QB already there and a Hall of Fame TE already there and a rookie RB who might someday get into the Hall of Fame because he did have one season with 2000+ yards gained.

That is a far cry from what Mike Shanahan found here in Washington at the end of the Jim Zorn/Vinny Cerrato era. He had a ton of work to do; he still does have a ton of work to do. There is progress - - but the Redskins are not yet close to being an elite team in the Shanahan era.

For some reason I thought Shanny drafted Sharpe... oh well. I was just pointing out he did have some roster reshaping to do there. He didn't step into a perfect situation. Yes he did step into a mess here and needs more time to get things straight. No disagreeing with you there.

[ethat001]

I think this thread is entirely an overreaction. MS has done a good job so far, and 3-2 at this point in the season with a win over the Giants would be considered a success by everyone about 2 months ago.

1) Most of the league and this board were applauding the staff about 1-2 weeks ago with their good decisions. I predict they will do so again in about 2-3 weeks if we have a couple of key wins.

2) We're missing a good QB, however MS has done a great job at supplying some depth, with only 1-2 offseasons to work with. The first year he didn't have that many draft picks, so not sure if we can count that one.. Good draft picks of TW (?I think), Kerrigan, Jenkins (probably), Helu (probably), etc, and Atogwe/Hightower in FA. Altogether better moves for younger players than in the past 10 years.

3) Beck may be a good QB. Don't have any idea yet, but does have promise and I'm willing to watch him for 2-3 games to see. There will be growing pains, but I doubt he throws an 2 picks a game and has the 2nd worst passer rating in the league -- like Rex.

4) MS didn't have a good QB to pick at the right places in the draft. Obviously passed on Gabbert for a reason, time will tell whether that was the right choice. Also passed on the others: Ponder, Dalton, Mallett, etc -> because they weren't worth a 1st round picks. Didn't get a high priced FA like last year (McNabb) - probably a good choice not to give up more draft picks for throwaway QB's. SO glad we didn't do a give-away-the-franchise deal like the Raiders did for Palmer. In all, MS has made wise choices so far with a couple of misses. Plan to address QB next year.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by skins89moss

My take is that the Redskin coaches no more about the NFL game than any fool on here who tries to pretend he knows more.

I hate when people default to this notion. "They're the coach, they know more than you."

It may be true in 99.9% of decisions and cases, but to say that coaches can't completely gaff a call, or make an incorrect decision because of their past or pedigree, and their decisions are always above question because they know the game and the big picture, is ridiculous. That is what these forums are for. If you dont want to comment on what you think has been done right or wrong in your eyes, then just be content with reading the newspapers every monday morning. Why are people like that even on a forum, if all they do is blindly follow along with whatever decisions said coach makes? They are humans too, and are not above criticism. Definitely not Mike Shanahan. And with him bringing his baby boy in to run the offense, he has to know that if it is being run inadequately, its going to be a lightning rod for critique and discussion, among the press as well as the fans.

Hopefully he can apply a bandaid (John Beck) to the situation and forego the impending criticism headed his way if the offense continues to lose games for this franchise. If we run the ball over 40% of the snaps on Sunday, believe that Mike reigned Kyle in a bit and MADE him run the ball to set up the bootlegs and playactions for Beck. With our offensive line issues, Id be very surprised if we dont lean heavily on the run and move the pocket around a bit. Becks mobility beings a new dimension to this offense, and while not on the level of a Randall Cunningham or Michael Vick, it could be just what the doctor ordered for this squad.

Another thing....... Jim Haslett is slowly working his way back to another head coaching job somewhere in the near future if he continues on like he has.

[Hog1]

Coaches ARE fallible and it happens all the time. You see in it in clock mgmt.....2 minute drill and other more pressure type situations more often.
That having been said, do you have a job? If so part of the reason you got it is....past experience..track record.
Coaches are the experts....fans are the idiots...just fact! There are exceptions on both sides of that coin. THAT is why coaches get 5m p/yr and fans get Direct TV.
Forums are for fans to execute their best NFL thoughts.
Coaches do it in the huddle.
LOVE MS/HATE HIM, the man is a PROVEN SB winner. That means he knows how to get it done. He just cannot wipe away 20 years of mediocrity and worse in 2 seasons. Only an Idiot fan believes that.
BTW.....Baby Boy had one of the most prolific offenses in pro ball before coming here. Soooo he did not need the gig.
HTTR!

[Bushead]

The roster was old and depleted. In all honesty, after Gibbs retired, it should have been blown up then, but with two additional years of Zorn, the roster just kept aging.

There was so much wrong with this team that i have always said i would give him 4 years before I start judging him. In another thread someone was so upset how we don't have any one to back up the LG and how it was just another major oversight of MS.

Let's be real here: he inherited a very old team and we are still a very old team. We don't have a playmaker on offense that scares people in the redzone and no, we don't have an above average QB at the moment.

But, we have seen time and time again, good QBs get thrown into bad situations and where it's a no win for everyone. If we had drafted a QB the first or second year, it wouldn't have mattered; There would be no one to support them. It could have been a Patrick Ramsey, Joey Harrington, John Beck or name any hundred of similar situations.

In the past offseason, you've seen them upgrade at Safety, WR (Gaffney and young people to grow), great OLB, two new DLineman, new starting CB to replace someone who wanted to leave, starting RB with a change of pace back, new RG. I think we can all agree that this years team is way better, and more talented than last years.

But to expect to also, with all of those upgrades, get more depth and a better QB? You can't do it all in one off season. He inherited a poor roster, and in two years turned it into something that is average.

It seems most people hark back on one main thing: Donovan McNabb. Yes, he screwed up. Thought he had someone who could play at a good level for 2 to 3 years to make this team very competitive and draft someone to learn the system. He was wrong. But, once the mistake was realized, he cut ways, got what he could and moved on.

I am just happy for once to have someone who has a proven track record that is going to get their fair chance to build a team. He had great teams almost every year at Denver - I saws the statistics and I was floored!

I think he has made smart FA decisions, has coached well in the game and has the full faith of the locker room that he can win games.

[celts32]

I am frustrated by the QB position as every Redskins fan is but overall I am VERY happy with the direction of the team...and that direction is 100% attributed to Mike Shannahan & Bruce Allen. We are only a year and a half away from the Snyderatto & Zorn circus...it amazes me that anyone could be fed up with the organization now after what we have been through. They will eventually get the QB right and when they do the team will take off...

[hooskins]

We tend to get caught up in the moment as a fan base. Overall we were 6-10 Shanny's first year. Improvement from 4-12 with Zorny. Hopefully we will be better this year. So far, Bruce Allen and Shanahan have done a good job guiding this team in a better direction.

There is no overnight solution.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by celts32

I am frustrated by the QB position as every Redskins fan is but overall I am VERY happy with the direction of the team...and that direction is 100% attributed to Mike Shannahan & Bruce Allen. We are only a year and a half away from the Snyderatto & Zorn circus...it amazes me that anyone could be fed up with the organization now after what we have been through. They will eventually get the QB right and when they do the team will take off...

Agreed ! Adding a QB , WR on offense , and 1 guy at any postion on Defense and this team is solid . Of course I hope we draft at least 1 OLmen , and either a MLB or big nasty DLmen as I think that would make this team very strong .