Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, if it's any consolation...and I know it won't be to many, I checked and the game that Snyder and Cerrato "scouted" was Kansas at Texas on Nov. 21. There were a few other owners at the game as well (though I don't know who exactly). Anyway, they didn't go down there to do any scouting. They were watching a college football game...take a look at the Redskins schedule and see who they were playing the next day and then you'll see why Snyder and Cerrato were there.

Just wanted to bump this as a reminder. Also to add, that the owners and front office execs who attended were apparently there as guests of Jerry Jones before taking a stadium tour (Cowboys Stadium) that evening. Though that part I'm not 100% sure of. For sure though it was the Kansas at Texas game and Snyder went primarily because he was going to be in Texas that weekend anyway.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Well I just lost whatever respect I had for Jason Reid. Thanks, Smoot.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Well I just lost whatever respect I had for Jason Reid. Thanks, Smoot.

Well I mean Reid didn't really lie. He just spun it a certain way.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well I mean Reid didn't really lie. He just spun it a certain way.

Well the "spin" he put on it was utterly licentious. The blog article started out "Owner Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato, Washington's executive vice president of football operations, recently attended a University of Texas game to scout quarterback Colt McCoy." That phrasing indicates the specific purpose of the game was to scout McCoy. If you could find out information which put their visit in context, then i'm sure the information was available to Reid. It really makes me wonder how much more from the Post that we interpret as Snyder meddling is really just "spin."

[SmootSmack]

Some other guys Snyder has reportedly scouted in the past include Ted Ginn Jr., Kellen Winslow II, and Calvin Johnson.

Still not sure about the Clausen part of the story. I'm sure he's high on our radar though.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Some other guys Snyder has reportedly scouted in the past include Ted Ginn Jr., Kellen Winslow II, and Calvin Johnson.

Still not sure about the Clausen part of the story. I'm sure he's high on our radar though.

Well I would be pretty upset if Cerrato hadn't personnaly scouted Clausen. Its his job to oversee scouting and I think its great that he watches some of these guys play in person. It means he's doing his job.

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

SC's point about Ramsey is true though. That was definitely all Snyder (as was Rock Cartwright). But that was also many years ago and doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme.

Well he was right on Cartwright and obviously not on Ramsey. To be realistic, its understandable that Snyder would to be somewhat involved in the process; after all, he is going to be the one paying them millions of dollars. However, I would hope his involvement would be minimal and near the end of the selection process - not up front. By all appearances (and with the understanding that Reid's most recent allegations are BS), thats how things have been working recently.

[SmootSmack]

SC's point about Ramsey is true though. That was definitely all Snyder (as was Rock Cartwright). But that was also many years ago and doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

SC's point about Ramsey is true though. That was definitely all Snyder (as was Rock Cartwright). But that was also many years ago and doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme.

I recall Snyder really wanted to draft Santana Moss when he came out, but Marty overruled him and went with 50/50 Rod Gardner.

[celts32]

I have no problem with Snyder traveling to watch football players the Redskins may draft. My issue is with the person he has chosen to ultimately make these decisions! If he were traveling with Bill Parcells, Holmgren, Joe Gibbs or even Mike Shanahan to look at a QB I don't think anyone would have an issue with it. And the biggest factor in that for me is that I beleive that if Snyder did get overly attached to a player Parcells or Holmgren would put him in his place whereas Vinny might side with Snyder fearing for his job security.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by celts32

I have no problem with Snyder traveling to watch football players the Redskins may draft. My issue is with the person he has chosen to ultimately make these decisions! If he were traveling with Bill Parcells, Holmgren, Joe Gibbs or even Mike Shanahan to look at a QB I don't think anyone would have an issue with it. And the biggest factor in that for me is that I beleive that if Snyder did get overly attached to a player Parcells or Holmgren would put him in his place whereas Vinny might side with Snyder fearing for his job security.

Before you crucify the man, lets take a look at the two drafts we've had with Cerrato as the ultimate descision maker:

2008

Round / Overall Selection / Name / Position / College / Comments / Grade
2 34 Devin Thomas WR Michigan State - Is in the process of becoming a solid #2 Receiver PASS
2 48 Fred Davis TE USC - He's no where near as good as Cooley, but he's certainly better than many starting TE's in the league.PASS
2 51 Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma - He's contributing. When he was drafted, it was really a hedge against the Thomas pick. we were really just hoping that one of our two 2nd round WRs would work out. If Kelly becomes a situational #3/#4 WR, then i'll view the pick as a success. As for now, the Verdicts still out. VERDICT'S OUT
3 96 Chad Rinehart T Northern Iowa - I'm not ready to close the book on Rinehart just yet, but he's looking like a bust. FAIL
4 124 Justin Tryon CB Arizona State - A cornerback drafted in the 4th round is not expected to be anything more than a #3 or #4 corner. Tryon's filling tha trole nicely. PASS
6 168 Durant Brooks P Georgia Tech - No discussion necessary. FAIL
6 180 Kareem Moore DB Nicholls State - Moor is doing everything you'd expect from a 6th round WR. He's contributing on special teams and not killing us when he plays on defense. Good pick. PASS
6 186 Colt Brennan QB Hawaii - He served as a #3 QB last year and probably would have earned the same role this year had he not been injured and placed on IR. We may never see what he could have become here because, as he was Zorn's QB, he'll likely be cut by our next head coach. VERDICT'S OUT
7 242 Rob Jackson DE Kansas State - He made the final 53 man roster as a rookie and he's still with the team now. He's made some plays when he gets on the field. He doesn't kill us when he comes in to spell a starter. As a 7th round pick, thats all we can expect. PASS
7 249 Chris Horton SS UCLA - Became a starter as a rookie, lost the job his second year, but still contributed significantly until he was placed on IR. We can all agree this was a great pick. PASS


2008
Round / Overall Selection / Name / Position / College / Comments / Grade
1 13 Brian Orakpo DE Texas - GREAT Pick. He will be a perennial pro-bowler. PASS
3 80 Kevin Barnes CB Maryland - We haven't seen him much, but injuries to our starters have given him more playing time. The fact that his name hasn't been mentioned much is a good sign. It means he hasnt been making big mistakes. I realize its still too early to tell, but i'll give this pick a passing grade. PASS
5 158 Cody Glenn LB Nebraska - Who? FAIL
6 186 Robert Henson OLB TCU - He's on the team. Hasn't done anything noteable as of yet.VERDICT'S OUT
7 221 Eddie Williams TE Idaho - He hasn't done anything yet and now he's on IR. VERDICT'S OUT
7 243 Marko Mitchell WR Nevada - I'm tempted to say the verdict's still out, but Mitchell's already done more than you'd expect from a 7th round compensatory selection and has shown alot of promise. I'm gonna give him a pass. PASS

So there ya go. I guess everyone has their opinion, but there's not too much to hate about how this team has acquired players under Cerrato. The only truly questionable decision he's made is trading a 2nd and a 6th round pick for Jason Taylor. It was a desperation move. Most of us didnt like it at the time and we all agree it was a huge mistake now.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

So there ya go. I guess everyone has their opinion, but there's not too much to hate about how this team has acquired players under Cerrato. The only truly questionable decision he's made is trading a 2nd and a 6th round pick for Jason Taylor. It was a desperation move. Most of us didnt like it at the time and we all agree it was a huge mistake now.

My only gripe with Vinny is that imo he sacrificied his integrity for cash.
He used to be and still is competent scout.
But his problem is that Synder can walk into Vinny's office or tell Vinnie during a game of racquetball-"Hey Vin i think we should sign Jason Taylor" and Vinny as much as he disagrees has to go out and get it done.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

3 96 Chad Rinehart T Northern Iowa - I'm not ready to close the book on Rinehart just yet, but he's looking like a bust. FAIL

I thought Rhinehart got back in the lineup and was doing well until he got hurt?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I thought Rhinehart got back in the lineup and was doing well until he got hurt?

He could still bounce back, but it was my understand that even when he got healthy again, Edwin Williams was ahead of him on the depth chart. Then when Edwin got hurt, Mike Williams started at RT over Rinehart. I supposed I could have labeled him, "verdict's out," but by all appearances, he's a bust.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

He could still bounce back, but it was my understand that even when he got healthy again, Edwin Williams was ahead of him on the depth chart. Then when Edwin got hurt, Mike Williams started at RT over Rinehart. I supposed I could have labeled him, "verdict's out," but by all appearances, he's a bust.

When Rinehart went down he was in the starting lineup. That's when Edwin Williams got his shot.

Edwin didn't get hurt, when big Mike was healthy he was named the starter again.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Before you crucify the man, lets take a look at the two drafts we've had with Cerrato as the ultimate descision maker:

2008

Round / Overall Selection / Name / Position / College / Comments / Grade
2 34 Devin Thomas WR Michigan State - Is in the process of becoming a solid #2 Receiver PASS
2 48 Fred Davis TE USC - He's no where near as good as Cooley, but he's certainly better than many starting TE's in the league.PASS
2 51 Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma - He's contributing. When he was drafted, it was really a hedge against the Thomas pick. we were really just hoping that one of our two 2nd round WRs would work out. If Kelly becomes a situational #3/#4 WR, then i'll view the pick as a success. As for now, the Verdicts still out. VERDICT'S OUT
3 96 Chad Rinehart T Northern Iowa - I'm not ready to close the book on Rinehart just yet, but he's looking like a bust. FAIL
4 124 Justin Tryon CB Arizona State - A cornerback drafted in the 4th round is not expected to be anything more than a #3 or #4 corner. Tryon's filling tha trole nicely. PASS
6 168 Durant Brooks P Georgia Tech - No discussion necessary. FAIL
6 180 Kareem Moore DB Nicholls State - Moor is doing everything you'd expect from a 6th round WR. He's contributing on special teams and not killing us when he plays on defense. Good pick. PASS
6 186 Colt Brennan QB Hawaii - He served as a #3 QB last year and probably would have earned the same role this year had he not been injured and placed on IR. We may never see what he could have become here because, as he was Zorn's QB, he'll likely be cut by our next head coach. VERDICT'S OUT
7 242 Rob Jackson DE Kansas State - He made the final 53 man roster as a rookie and he's still with the team now. He's made some plays when he gets on the field. He doesn't kill us when he comes in to spell a starter. As a 7th round pick, thats all we can expect. PASS
7 249 Chris Horton SS UCLA - Became a starter as a rookie, lost the job his second year, but still contributed significantly until he was placed on IR. We can all agree this was a great pick. PASS


2008
Round / Overall Selection / Name / Position / College / Comments / Grade
1 13 Brian Orakpo DE Texas - GREAT Pick. He will be a perennial pro-bowler. PASS
3 80 Kevin Barnes CB Maryland - We haven't seen him much, but injuries to our starters have given him more playing time. The fact that his name hasn't been mentioned much is a good sign. It means he hasnt been making big mistakes. I realize its still too early to tell, but i'll give this pick a passing grade. PASS
5 158 Cody Glenn LB Nebraska - Who? FAIL
6 186 Robert Henson OLB TCU - He's on the team. Hasn't done anything noteable as of yet.VERDICT'S OUT
7 221 Eddie Williams TE Idaho - He hasn't done anything yet and now he's on IR. VERDICT'S OUT
7 243 Marko Mitchell WR Nevada - I'm tempted to say the verdict's still out, but Mitchell's already done more than you'd expect from a 7th round compensatory selection and has shown alot of promise. I'm gonna give him a pass. PASS

So there ya go. I guess everyone has their opinion, but there's not too much to hate about how this team has acquired players under Cerrato. The only truly questionable decision he's made is trading a 2nd and a 6th round pick for Jason Taylor. It was a desperation move. Most of us didnt like it at the time and we all agree it was a huge mistake now.

Thomas has had one or two good games and one of them was against a team that was pulling cb's off the street. Let's not overvalue the guys on this team yet just cause they're Redskins. Right now the only true keeper is probably Orakpo. The rest of them the verdict is still out.