Carlos Rogers Done For The Year

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

C'mon dude you said the pick was "utter incompetence" and that JC was "mediocre", "not 1st round material", and "This kid isn't McNabb, McNair, Culpepper, Leftwich, and here's the scary part I don't believe he's even Aaron Brooks" and last not not least "i will be right about this kid as his future unfolds, but don't worry we will trade him for a conditional 6th or 7th rd. pick in 3 year's".

Pretty strong statements there. Nice way of backing off your stance now.

So I guess Mangini was wrong on Ramsey too since he didn't think he was any better than Pennington or Clemens?

As far as Gibbs' hits vs. misses, if we laid them all out I'd be willing to bet that the number of good moves would easily outnumber the bad ones. There's no way it would be 50/50. The only glaring misses that come to mind are Lloyd, Arch, Patten, and Barrow. And with Patten and Barrow injuries came into play so an argument could be made that if they stayed healthy they were moves that could have worked out. If you can name more I'd love to hear them.

I haven't "crowned" JC anything yet, not sure where you are getting that. I think he's a promising young QB and I like the move a lot more today vs. when he was drafted. As far as what happened this past Sunday I wouldn't put too much stock in it. That was his 14th career start and Belichick's defense over the years has made many, many QB's with far more experience look bad. Hell, his 'D' has made Manning look bad at times so I'm not going to get too worked up over Campbell's struggles especially considering the whole team struggled.

True about there defense and making QB's look bad, but 52 nothing bad late in the game, there are different levels of bad, and Campbell pegged the needle. Further more I wouldn't base a judgement on one game that wouldn't be fair, but he really hasen't done a whole lot to show me he's the goods so far, but I will say I hope he gets a fair shot unlike Ramsey.


No need to back off at this point, the fact is I don't ever see this kid becoming a bonafide SB type QB, EVER! But if I start saying it now I would never here the end of it, personally I was just passing time until it's official you know just like Portis, Brunell, Arrington, etc. and so on. Sorry but if you want it straight there it is, lets face it we have a 3rd year QB who is still learning how to find an open WR, he will be ready for retirement by the time he consistently is able to find one. I do like him seems like a class act, and I will root for him to prove me 1000% wrong, but I don't think so we are stuck with a run of the mill average QB. That wouldn't be so bad if we picked him in the 2nd or 3rd rd where he belonged instead of trading away a lot of picks to get him as if we were drafting Elway or some other franchise type QB, this kid is not a franchise QB, although Gibbs didn't need franchise QB's in the past, but he sure needs one now.

I don't know about Mangini, do you think he has been right about Pennington? Something tells me the benching this week kind of says no.

Further more I would like to think Shanahan knows a little about QB's, and to bring Ramsey in behind a 2nd year starter when it is very conceivable that he might need to give Cutler a breather now and then as he learns, should tell you the guy sees something in him to give him a 2 year contract.


Funny you use 14 starts as an excuse for this kid yet Ramsey probably didn't have that with us, and Ramsey hadn't performed any worse than Campbell, but you know it's the teams fault and not Campbells inability to convert 3rd downs? The bottom line here is whether or not Ramsey will ever pan out remains to seen, but lets face it if Gibbs sang his praises instead of the teachers pet in Brunell you would still be slobbering all over him, it comes down to what gibbs tells you to think, unfortunately you still think your listening to a 3 time SB winner and that coach has long left the building, we have a coach now living off that rep while he continues to make us look like the laughing stock of the league, because that is what we are at this point lets not sugar coat it!

Do you really want to know how to make this kid pan out? I will tell you, we need to build a monster O-line to limit what Campbell has to do, so that the burden of winning is not square on his shoulders, sounds a lot like Gibbs first go round doesn't it, the fact is regardless of what notoriety our current line has [when healthy] they do not push players off the LOS, that's what we had in the 80's, and that's what we don't have now, Gibbs needs to recognize this and bring that type of O-lineman in, unfortunately he hasn't yet and I doubt he will devote the efforts necessary to make that happen.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

True about there defense and making QB's look bad, but 52 nothing bad late in the game, there are different levels of bad, and Campbell pegged the needle. Further more I wouldn't base a judgement on one game that wouldn't be fair, but he really hasen't done a whole lot to show me he's the goods so far, but I will say I hope he gets a fair shot unlike Ramsey.


No need to back off at this point, the fact is I don't ever see this kid becoming a bonafide SB type QB, EVER! But if I start saying it now I would never here the end of it, personally I was just passing time until it's official you know just like Portis, Brunell, Arrington, etc. and so on. Sorry but if you want it straight there it is, lets face it we have a 3rd year QB who is still learning how to find an open WR, he will be ready for retirement by the time he consistently is able to find one. I do like him seems like a class act, and I will root for him to prove me 1000% wrong, but I don't think so we are stuck with a run of the mill average QB. That wouldn't be so bad if we picked him in the 2nd or 3rd rd where he belonged instead of trading away a lot of picks to get him as if we were drafting Elway or some other franchise type QB, this kid is not a franchise QB, although Gibbs didn't need franchise QB's in the past, but he sure needs one now.

I don't know about Mangini, do you think he has been right about Pennington? Something tells me the benching this week kind of says no.

Further more I would like to think Shanahan knows a little about QB's, and to bring Ramsey in behind a 2nd year starter when it is very conceivable that he might need to give Cutler a breather now and then as he learns, should tell you the guy sees something in him to give him a 2 year contract.


Funny you use 14 starts as an excuse for this kid yet Ramsey probably didn't have that with us, and Ramsey hadn't performed any worse than Campbell, but you know it's the teams fault and not Campbells inability to convert 3rd downs? The bottom line here is whether or not Ramsey will ever pan out remains to seen, but lets face it if Gibbs sang his praises instead of the teachers pet in Brunell you would still be slobbering all over him, it comes down to what gibbs tells you to think, unfortunately you still think your listening to a 3 time SB winner and that coach has long left the building, we have a coach now living off that rep while he continues to make us look like the laughing stock of the league, because that is what we are at this point lets not sugar coat it!

Do you really want to know how to make this kid pan out? I will tell you, we need to build a monster O-line to limit what Campbell has to do, so that the burden of winning is not square on his shoulders, sounds a lot like Gibbs first go round doesn't it, the fact is regardless of what notoriety our current line has [when healthy] they do not push players off the LOS, that's what we had in the 80's, and that's what we don't have now, Gibbs needs to recognize this and bring that type of O-lineman in, unfortunately he hasn't yet and I doubt he will devote the efforts necessary to make that happen.

I'll answer your key points that I put in bold:

No not really, it's ok to change your mind and *gasp*, admit when you are wrong. You were very adamant when JC was drafted that it was a huge mistake. It wouldn't be a bad thing to back off that stance now, plenty of others have including myself.

Time will tell, and it's a little early to lean heavily either way wouldn't you agree?

Well, he was right last year when Pennington was the comeback player of the year. This benching really doesn't say much about Pennington, he hasn't played all that bad (87.5 QB rating). He's being benched because the Jets are 1-7 and they need to see what Clemens is made of.

A 2 year contract is hardly a vote of confidence. Hell, the Jets gave him an extension and then cut him less than a year later after they couldn't find someone to trade him to. Besides, Cutler is no danger of being benched unless he gets hurt.

Ramsey started 24 games for the Redskins. Saying that JC only has 14 starts is not an excuse, it's fact. And to expect the world from a guy with 14 starts is a little ridiculous. Look at Eli Manning who is just now starting to come into his own.

No, not really. For me it comes down to what I saw from him during those 24 starts. His decision making and accuracy never improved. Campbell in a much shorter time has already shown improvements in both areas.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by offiss

True about there defense and making QB's look bad, but 52 nothing bad late in the game, there are different levels of bad, and Campbell pegged the needle. Further more I wouldn't base a judgement on one game that wouldn't be fair, but he really hasen't done a whole lot to show me he's the goods so far, but I will say I hope he gets a fair shot unlike Ramsey.


No need to back off at this point, the fact is I don't ever see this kid becoming a bonafide SB type QB, EVER! But if I start saying it now I would never here the end of it, personally I was just passing time until it's official you know just like Portis, Brunell, Arrington, etc. and so on. Sorry but if you want it straight there it is, lets face it we have a 3rd year QB who is still learning how to find an open WR, he will be ready for retirement by the time he consistently is able to find one. I do like him seems like a class act, and I will root for him to prove me 1000% wrong, but I don't think so we are stuck with a run of the mill average QB. That wouldn't be so bad if we picked him in the 2nd or 3rd rd where he belonged instead of trading away a lot of picks to get him as if we were drafting Elway or some other franchise type QB, this kid is not a franchise QB, although Gibbs didn't need franchise QB's in the past, but he sure needs one now.

I don't know about Mangini, do you think he has been right about Pennington? Something tells me the benching this week kind of says no.

Further more I would like to think Shanahan knows a little about QB's, and to bring Ramsey in behind a 2nd year starter when it is very conceivable that he might need to give Cutler a breather now and then as he learns, should tell you the guy sees something in him to give him a 2 year contract.


Funny you use 14 starts as an excuse for this kid yet Ramsey probably didn't have that with us, and Ramsey hadn't performed any worse than Campbell, but you know it's the teams fault and not Campbells inability to convert 3rd downs? The bottom line here is whether or not Ramsey will ever pan out remains to seen, but lets face it if Gibbs sang his praises instead of the teachers pet in Brunell you would still be slobbering all over him, it comes down to what gibbs tells you to think, unfortunately you still think your listening to a 3 time SB winner and that coach has long left the building, we have a coach now living off that rep while he continues to make us look like the laughing stock of the league, because that is what we are at this point lets not sugar coat it!

Do you really want to know how to make this kid pan out? I will tell you, we need to build a monster O-line to limit what Campbell has to do, so that the burden of winning is not square on his shoulders, sounds a lot like Gibbs first go round doesn't it, the fact is regardless of what notoriety our current line has [when healthy] they do not push players off the LOS, that's what we had in the 80's, and that's what we don't have now, Gibbs needs to recognize this and bring that type of O-lineman in, unfortunately he hasn't yet and I doubt he will devote the efforts necessary to make that happen.

1.) You don't see JC becoming a bona fide SB type QB ever? Who IS a bona fide SB type QB? There aren't many. Let me remind you that Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson both won Super bowls.

2.) Shannahan doesn't know jack squat about QBs, IMO. Look at what he's done since Elway: nothing. To use his judgment as a gauge of Ramsey's talent is absurd.