Some Things Never Change (WP:RI Article)

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by celts32

I have no problem with Snyder traveling to watch football players the Redskins may draft. My issue is with the person he has chosen to ultimately make these decisions! If he were traveling with Bill Parcells, Holmgren, Joe Gibbs or even Mike Shanahan to look at a QB I don't think anyone would have an issue with it. And the biggest factor in that for me is that I beleive that if Snyder did get overly attached to a player Parcells or Holmgren would put him in his place whereas Vinny might side with Snyder fearing for his job security.

Before you crucify the man, lets take a look at the two drafts we've had with Cerrato as the ultimate descision maker:

2008

Round / Overall Selection / Name / Position / College / Comments / Grade
2 34 Devin Thomas WR Michigan State - Is in the process of becoming a solid #2 Receiver PASS
2 48 Fred Davis TE USC - He's no where near as good as Cooley, but he's certainly better than many starting TE's in the league.PASS
2 51 Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma - He's contributing. When he was drafted, it was really a hedge against the Thomas pick. we were really just hoping that one of our two 2nd round WRs would work out. If Kelly becomes a situational #3/#4 WR, then i'll view the pick as a success. As for now, the Verdicts still out. VERDICT'S OUT
3 96 Chad Rinehart T Northern Iowa - I'm not ready to close the book on Rinehart just yet, but he's looking like a bust. FAIL
4 124 Justin Tryon CB Arizona State - A cornerback drafted in the 4th round is not expected to be anything more than a #3 or #4 corner. Tryon's filling tha trole nicely. PASS
6 168 Durant Brooks P Georgia Tech - No discussion necessary. FAIL
6 180 Kareem Moore DB Nicholls State - Moor is doing everything you'd expect from a 6th round WR. He's contributing on special teams and not killing us when he plays on defense. Good pick. PASS
6 186 Colt Brennan QB Hawaii - He served as a #3 QB last year and probably would have earned the same role this year had he not been injured and placed on IR. We may never see what he could have become here because, as he was Zorn's QB, he'll likely be cut by our next head coach. VERDICT'S OUT
7 242 Rob Jackson DE Kansas State - He made the final 53 man roster as a rookie and he's still with the team now. He's made some plays when he gets on the field. He doesn't kill us when he comes in to spell a starter. As a 7th round pick, thats all we can expect. PASS
7 249 Chris Horton SS UCLA - Became a starter as a rookie, lost the job his second year, but still contributed significantly until he was placed on IR. We can all agree this was a great pick. PASS


2008
Round / Overall Selection / Name / Position / College / Comments / Grade
1 13 Brian Orakpo DE Texas - GREAT Pick. He will be a perennial pro-bowler. PASS
3 80 Kevin Barnes CB Maryland - We haven't seen him much, but injuries to our starters have given him more playing time. The fact that his name hasn't been mentioned much is a good sign. It means he hasnt been making big mistakes. I realize its still too early to tell, but i'll give this pick a passing grade. PASS
5 158 Cody Glenn LB Nebraska - Who? FAIL
6 186 Robert Henson OLB TCU - He's on the team. Hasn't done anything noteable as of yet.VERDICT'S OUT
7 221 Eddie Williams TE Idaho - He hasn't done anything yet and now he's on IR. VERDICT'S OUT
7 243 Marko Mitchell WR Nevada - I'm tempted to say the verdict's still out, but Mitchell's already done more than you'd expect from a 7th round compensatory selection and has shown alot of promise. I'm gonna give him a pass. PASS

So there ya go. I guess everyone has their opinion, but there's not too much to hate about how this team has acquired players under Cerrato. The only truly questionable decision he's made is trading a 2nd and a 6th round pick for Jason Taylor. It was a desperation move. Most of us didnt like it at the time and we all agree it was a huge mistake now.

[mlmdub130]

desaen jackson was drafted right after fred davis, and ray rice was drafted three or four spots behind kelly, not to mention we needed lineman in both of thoose drafts and we got one, vinny is terrible personell guy

[mlmdub130]

thomas was a good pickup we did need a big wide out, we didn't need a te and we sure as hell didn't need two wide outs, and could have used a younger back, and we needed LINEMEN

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

desaen jackson was drafted right after fred davis, and ray rice was drafted three or four spots behind kelly, not to mention we needed lineman in both of thoose drafts and we got one, vinny is terrible personell guy

Who's the best personnel guy in the NFL?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

desaen jackson was drafted right after fred davis, and ray rice was drafted three or four spots behind kelly, not to mention we needed lineman in both of thoose drafts and we got one, vinny is terrible personell guy

You can go back through every draft and look at players that EVERY team wish they had drafted. Do you blame 31 teams for passing on Brady 5-6 times? Jackson is great, but we already had enough small WRs. We needed bigs ones. Ray Rice??? why on earth would we have drafted a RB. I was disappointed that we didnt get any loffensive inemen, but if you look at the draft, there really wasnt anyone worth taking in the 2nd round between the slots we drafted. Also, 1st and 2nd round Olinemen can generally start immediately, whereas it takes receivers 2-3 years to develop. When you look at things from a multi-year perspective, it makes the most sense to draft the receivers 1st and linemen 2nd.

If the team is abiding by any sort of long-term strategy that is consistent with what we've done the past two years, they'll hire a WCO coach, resign Levi Jones, and add one starting-caliber offensive linemen through FA or the draft and 1-2 backup, developmental linemen in the draft.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

thomas was a good pickup we did need a big wide out, we didn't need a te and we sure as hell didn't need two wide outs, and could have used a younger back, and we needed LINEMEN

we needed WR's a hell of alot more than we needed a younger back. While our offensive line still needs help, our defensive line has been dramatically upgraded over the past two years (Haynesworth, Jackson, Jarmon, and Orakpo). Are you going to complain no matter what the front office does? I bet if they draft o-linemen this year, you'll complain they didnt address some other position.

I know alot of people dont like acknowledging this, but Joe Jackson Gibbs set this franchise back several years by trading draft picks and stockpiling on old veteran players in an attempt to reach the superbowl. Not only did he fail to win more than one playoff game, but didnt develop young talent and left this team with the oldest roster in the NFL. He essentially put all of our chips on the table, went "all in," and lost. There's absolutely nothing any GM could have done in the past 2 years to put us in a noteably better situation (personnel wise) than we are now.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

You can go back through every draft and look at players that EVERY team wish they had drafted. Do you blame 31 teams for passing on Brady 5-6 times? Jackson is great, but we already had enough small WRs. We needed bigs ones. Ray Rice??? why on earth would we have drafted a RB. I was disappointed that we didnt get any loffensive inemen, but if you look at the draft, there really wasnt anyone worth taking in the 2nd round between the slots we drafted. Also, 1st and 2nd round Olinemen can generally start immediately, whereas it takes receivers 2-3 years to develop. When you look at things from a multi-year perspective, it makes the most sense to draft the receivers 1st and linemen 2nd.

If the team is abiding by any sort of long-term strategy that is consistent with what we've done the past two years, they'll hire a WCO coach, resign Levi Jones, and add one starting-caliber offensive linemen through FA or the draft and 1-2 backup, developmental linemen in the draft.

because we didn't have a running back under 27 thats why. we are short on rb's now because we wait til we are forced to. thats why the hell the draft is there for depth so you can get players and groom them, not to get them so they can start the next f-ing year!!!

thats why vinny is a a terrible personell guy, and ss i don't know names of many other teams personell guys but i would say some one like the guy they have in b more, or even philly, somone goes down they have depth

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

we needed WR's a hell of alot more than we needed a younger back. While our offensive line still needs help, our defensive line has been dramatically upgraded over the past two years (Haynesworth, Jackson, Jarmon, and Orakpo). Are you going to complain no matter what the front office does? I bet if they draft o-linemen this year, you'll complain they didnt address some other position.

I know alot of people dont like acknowledging this, but Joe Jackson Gibbs set this franchise back several years by trading draft picks and stockpiling on old veteran players in an attempt to reach the superbowl. Not only did he fail to win more than one playoff game, but didnt develop young talent and left this team with the oldest roster in the NFL. He essentially put all of our chips on the table, went "all in," and lost. There's absolutely nothing any GM could have done in the past 2 years to put us in a noteably better situation (personnel wise) than we are now.

how many of our starting wr are still on the feild???? did we really need another no we didn't

and i will agree we got set back during thoose years but do you think it was all joe, i know i don't

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

because we didn't have a running back under 27 thats why. we are short on rb's now because we wait til we are forced to. thats why the hell the draft is there for depth so you can get players and groom them, not to get them so they can start the next f-ing year!!!

thats why vinny is a a terrible personell guy, and ss i don't know names of many other teams personell guys but i would say some one like the guy they have in b more, or even philly, somone goes down they have depth

CP was 26 when Ray Rice was drafted

So we're not grooming guys like Thomas, Kelly, Tryon, Barnes, Jarmon for when guys like Moss, El, Thrash, Smoot, Springs, Rogers, Daniels get hurt or go down?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

So there ya go. I guess everyone has their opinion, but there's not too much to hate about how this team has acquired players under Cerrato. The only truly questionable decision he's made is trading a 2nd and a 6th round pick for Jason Taylor. It was a desperation move. Most of us didnt like it at the time and we all agree it was a huge mistake now.

My only gripe with Vinny is that imo he sacrificied his integrity for cash.
He used to be and still is competent scout.
But his problem is that Synder can walk into Vinny's office or tell Vinnie during a game of racquetball-"Hey Vin i think we should sign Jason Taylor" and Vinny as much as he disagrees has to go out and get it done.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Who's the best personnel guy in the NFL?

Probably Ozzie Newsome. The guy has put together a competitive team with coordinators constantly getting HC positions and his scouts getting promoted to GM spots but the one constant in that organization is Ozzie. On top of that he helped put together a team that won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. Basically a decade of success without a franchise QB, well until they got Flaco.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

CP was 26 when Ray Rice was drafted

So we're not grooming guys like Thomas, Kelly, Tryon, Barnes, Jarmon for when guys like Moss, El, Thrash, Smoot, Springs, Rogers, Daniels get hurt or go down?

what like 26 and 3/4's he is 28 now right, i'm just saying

we are we just took our sweet ass time to get around to doing it and i think that o line should have been the first focus since we were oldest there, it's just a shame it took them this long to realize we needed younger guys, and i don't understand why you wouldn't try to get youth at your oldest position first, which also happens to be the most important position in football imo at o line

[InsaneBoost]

Campbell on fire with a shitty line, yet they want a rookie with a shitty line.

Dumbest fucks on the Earth, plain and simple.

[Chico23231]

Vinny's and DS decision to not the address the Oline the last several years has to be this duo biggest downfall and in my opinion to see the oline collaspe so early in the season, Vinny should be fired for that alone after watching what happened last season. Since we are bring up the draft, How many Olinemen has Snyder/Vinny drafted in the last 10 years?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

we needed WR's a hell of alot more than we needed a younger back. While our offensive line still needs help, our defensive line has been dramatically upgraded over the past two years (Haynesworth, Jackson, Jarmon, and Orakpo). Are you going to complain no matter what the front office does? I bet if they draft o-linemen this year, you'll complain they didnt address some other position.

I know alot of people dont like acknowledging this, but Joe Jackson Gibbs set this franchise back several years by trading draft picks and stockpiling on old veteran players in an attempt to reach the superbowl. Not only did he fail to win more than one playoff game, but didnt develop young talent and left this team with the oldest roster in the NFL. He essentially put all of our chips on the table, went "all in," and lost. There's absolutely nothing any GM could have done in the past 2 years to put us in a noteably better situation (personnel wise) than we are now.

I've been saying that same thing, that Gibbs 4 years set the franchise back 8 years. He tried to sprint and fell short and now we're trying to catch up.

As ready as I am to let Vinny go, I've also said that he probably had a 3 year plan based on the major roster deficiencies from the Gibbs era, pass catchers, DL/Pass rush, OL:

Year one - Pass catchers and special teams.. 3 2nd round picks on pass catchers, depth picks in Tryon, Jackson, Horton - guys who were athletic but weren't expected to make an impact based on draft slot and Durant Brooks. Colt was a flyer who if he turned into something then great but if not, he was just a 6th round pick anyways.

Year two defensive line/pass rush.. Haynesworth, Orakpo, Jarmon.. Barnes was depth/potential replacement for Rogers, the rest of the picks were special teams/depth picks

Year three OL/QB/RB. I don't think (I hope) that Vinny will get to the point to make the decisions this offseason but I have to think this was the plan.

Our OL wasn't a disaster after 2007 but was aging. It wasn't a disaster starting 2008 but clearly needed to be addressed. Vinny's biggest mistake was the inability to effectively adjust the plan when needed.