Pro Bowl Bound - Samuels, Moss

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Players in the locker room usually don't put much thought into who they vote for. They often just fill out names just based on previous year's performance or simply name recognition. It's sort of an afterthought for them....or so I've been told.

Well if 1/3 of the voting isn't even paid attention to...why do we pay so much attention to it?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by bigmarley4

Vick doesn't win big games, its as simple as that. He is an okay passer and a good runner. To say he doesn't have targets is a joke. ATL got Peerless Price, they used their last 2 1st round picks on WR's, and yet none of these guys can play in the NFL?

It's the overall ground game (Dunn, Duckett, Vick) that drives the ATL offense. Stop that and they have nothing, cuz Vick can't pass to anyone besides Crumpler.

No, actually Peerless Price isn't in the NFL. On top of that, guys like Freddie Mitchell and Rod Gardner were picked in the first round of the draft, that doesn't mean that they're a lock to be good. I don't think Roddy White or Michael Jenkins can play. Jenkins wasn't even that good at Ohio State and Roddy White went to UAB, he only got into the first round because of a good combine. That's as inexact a science as any in sports.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I realize that. Brunell also has won three in a row, with the playoffs on the line. Though I understand what you're saying about the quality of the opponent.

What I'm saying though is that if the argument is going to be made that the Falcons are a much better team when Vick is in and they win with him and that's a big reason why he's in the Pro Bowl, then you have to factor in that when it's mattered recently against top teams they haven't won. And Vick can't be absolved of blame in those losses. So what does it matter that they're better with him if they lose anyway.?

What if the Skins lose this weekend? Does that mean that Mark Brunell has no business in the Pro Bowl because that could cost his team the playoff spot? Brunell doesn't scare anybody. He throws to 2 people on the team and that's because he has a reciever who is very good. He'd be worse than Vick if he were a Falcon. The Falcons have Vick, Crumpler, Dunn, Hall and Coleman who can play. That's pretty much it. That team is garbage. Mike Vick is the only reason they're even in a playoff hunt.

[jdlea]

What's funny about this thread is that there was a similar debate last year about the greatness of Brett Favre. Some people said that he was great and now he just gets by on reputation. That was even before this season, people were doubting Brett Favre.

Just wanted to clear that up.

For the record, I'm not comparing Vick to Favre, merely pointing out that a lot of question people for some strange reasons.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jdlea

In 03 and 04, the last 2 times the Pats won Super Bowls he was in the top 10 with those passing numbers. If we're going to use stats to justify Pro Bowlers then he probably shouldn't have gone because there were 2 or 3 other QB's from the AFC who had more yards or TD's than him each year.

Brady wins games that's why it's similar to Vick. I even said that I wasn't comparing their numbers. All I said was they don't jump off the page. IMO they don't. I don't look at Tom Brady's stats and wonder how he did that. I did that with Manning and Culpepper last year, not Brady, but Brady is the one who took home the Lombardi Trophy. Brady's most important stat is 3, as in Super Bowl rings. I like QB's who win...that's what Vick does.

Vick doesn't win the way Brady does, but then again who does? But the interesting thing about comparing Brady and Vick is this. You, and several others, say that Vick has no wide receivers. That all he has is Dunn and Crumpler. Names like Branch, Givens, Brown and even Patten don't exactly scare people when not mentioned with Tom Brady. In fact what a lot of people said when the Redskins signed Patten was "can he be good without Brady" Hard to say without all those receivers playing for other teams but at any rate those receivers do quite well with Brady.

So we'd have to ask ourselves how much of the Falcons' receiver issues lie with the QB? Are Jenkins, Finneran and White really that bad? Maybe, or maybe Vick just isn't that good....yet.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Vick doesn't win the way Brady does, but then again who does? But the interesting thing about comparing Brady and Vick is this. You, and several others, say that Vick has no wide receivers. That all he has is Dunn and Crumpler. Names like Branch, Givens, Brown and even Patten don't exactly scare people when not mentioned with Tom Brady. In fact what a lot of people said when the Redskins signed Patten was "can he be good without Brady" Hard to say without all those receivers playing for other teams but at any rate those receivers do quite well with Brady.

So we'd have to ask ourselves how much of the Falcons' receiver issues lie with the QB? Are Jenkins, Finneran and White really that bad? Maybe, or maybe Vick just isn't that good....yet.

That is a very good point, however, I think that a great reciever can make a mediocre/pretty good QB great...see: TO and Garcia. Just something to think about. I do agree that Vick needs to be a better passer and that if he were a truly great passer he could make recievers look good. However, I never claimed he was a great passer. He's a great talent and a winning QB. Period. He wins games. I don't care how he does it, just that he does it. Just win baby. That's my main determining factor about a QB.

However, I would point out that Price looked great in Buffalo, terrible in Atlanta and then terrible again when you put him back with Bledsoe and he was supposedly the #1 reciever as a Falcon. That doesn't say much for Vick's wide outs.

I'm willing to concede that Vick's not the greatest passer in the world, my point is that he doesn't need to be. He still wins games when he runs for touchdowns. My point is, what's wrong with that? He's redefining the way a lot of people think about quarterbacks. He's a great talent, not the best QB in the world. However, if you wanna know if I'd take him ahead of Brunell or Bledsoe, I'd do it 100 times out of 100. Consider this: Brunell has been to 2 Conference Championship games in however many years he's been in the league. Vick's in his 3rd full season as a starter, as I would disqualify the one where he broke his leg and he's already been to one and in his first year as a starter was the first QB to ever to come into Green Bay in the playoffs and walk out a winner. Just something to think about.

I don't argue that he doesn't have great stats or that he's not a great passer, but he's a winner and the difference maker for the Falcons.

[SmootSmack]

Well Brunell got the Jaguars to the AFC Championship game in their second year of existence, and that's not too bad. But either way the Pro Bowl should be about who's had the better year.

[ST21]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I'm SO not down with people picking due to race. We're ALL humans here, that's when you look at the stats and Vick just didn't have them.

Yea thats worked out for everybody.......

[ST21]

Originally Posted by EXoffender

You've been watching too many episodes of America's Next Top Model.

ok who told.......

[ST21]

Originally Posted by jdlea

That is a very good point, however, I think that a great reciever can make a mediocre/pretty good QB great...see: TO and Garcia. Just something to think about. I do agree that Vick needs to be a better passer and that if he were a truly great passer he could make recievers look good. However, I never claimed he was a great passer. He's a great talent and a winning QB. Period. He wins games. I don't care how he does it, just that he does it. Just win baby. That's my main determining factor about a QB.

However, I would point out that Price looked great in Buffalo, terrible in Atlanta and then terrible again when you put him back with Bledsoe and he was supposedly the #1 reciever as a Falcon. That doesn't say much for Vick's wide outs.

I'm willing to concede that Vick's not the greatest passer in the world, my point is that he doesn't need to be. He still wins games when he runs for touchdowns. My point is, what's wrong with that? He's redefining the way a lot of people think about quarterbacks. He's a great talent, not the best QB in the world. However, if you wanna know if I'd take him ahead of Brunell or Bledsoe, I'd do it 100 times out of 100. Consider this: Brunell has been to 2 Conference Championship games in however many years he's been in the league. Vick's in his 3rd full season as a starter, as I would disqualify the one where he broke his leg and he's already been to one and in his first year as a starter was the first QB to ever to come into Green Bay in the playoffs and walk out a winner. Just something to think about.

I don't argue that he doesn't have great stats or that he's not a great passer, but he's a winner and the difference maker for the Falcons.

Of course again you've made a great point, but Vick needs to avoid his talent stand in the pocket and not use those God given talents.........ITs wrong of him to think he could ever play that position....wrong, just wrong :yeahright

[cpayne5]

Anyone remember how Q3 started? Oh yeah...

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Anyone remember how Q3 started? Oh yeah...

Only Vick knows the answer to Q3...and he'll answer it in ways never before seen.

[Joe Knows...]

Well this is just disapointing that Marcus Washington, Sean Taylor, and Cornelius Griffen didn't make it. Randy Thomas should have made it too but like the true warrior brave he is, he sacraficed his body and got injured. I also agree that Samuels hasn't proved himself enough to be a perenial pro bowler.

But the whole issue really is that we don't get enough national esposure. If we continue to win, then our players will get elected into the Pro Bowl. That's the whole reason Moss was able to be voted in. He had that huge game on Monday Night Football in front of a national audiance and then again last week against the Cowboys.

I blame the issue on ESPN. All they ever talk about is Mike Vick, Donnovan and T.O. and The Cowboys, and the Colts. And they always hate on the Redskins. Wich could be a reason why our players don't get the Reccognition they deserve.

If we go into the playoffs and play well in front the nation, then next season our guys will be huge on NFL fans rader.

Redskins players I thought should be in the playoffs...

Santanna Moss
Cornelius Griffen
Marcus Washington
Shawn Springs
Sean Taylor
Randy Thomas
Clinton Portis
Jon Janson
Chris Cooley

And Mike Sellers shoud get some honest consideration for all his TDs, special teams, and lead blocks for Clinton Portis.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by denim_monger

i cants figure out how to make a new post but i just wanted to say hi to you dumb skins fans. anyone remember me? aww yeah denim is back in the hizzow

:headbange

go away!! we beat you already!!

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Well Brunell got the Jaguars to the AFC Championship game in their second year of existence, and that's not too bad. But either way the Pro Bowl should be about who's had the better year.

No, that's not bad at all, however, if you gave Vick Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell in their prime he could have probably done it too.