Redskins at Bucs game thread

[BrunellMVP?]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Years? It's his first full season, still gotta give him the benefit of the doubt for now. He still played a good game. He'll learn from this.

agreed, it way too early to start coming down hard on JC. Granted he's choked in the last two games (when it came time to win the game) but he's looked good at most other times. When was the last time that we had a QB that gave you confidence that we'd actually convert 3 and 9, routinely? He is legit, he just needs to learn how to win...perhaps he's not as poised as we thought (at least not at the end of the game) but this too shall pass...

[Rhaamses]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Rhaamses,
I'm the guy on the chat that you have been giving updates to...thanks so much....too bad it didn't go our way.
BTW....
I love Keenan!
sign him for 2 more years....he is clutch like cooley

No prob Dude. I'll be at the next two games, so I'll be back for the Giants Game

[GusFrerotte]

He(JC) is legitimate, but can he win? His best games statistically this season are all losses capped with late INTs.

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Who is a FA after this season? 10-6 is a very generous mark for this team if we lose some key components. We are a bunch of maroons(Bugs Bunny) and dupes for always buying into the hype surrounding this team. Saunders and Williams are crappy at best. Gibbs is not the same man as in 1981-92, and is only a medicore coach anymore. We keep these maroons around another season, any real talent we have will bolt for other teams, then we will be in a constant state of flux. We are in trouble, big, big, trouble!

Gus,
I believe you are overstating your opinion because you are pissed.
Saunders and Williams are not crappy...but they may be above average.
Gibbs is average and certainly not mediocre and I highly doubt talent will leave due to the coaching....in fact....I believe, the players will be embarrased that they didn't play better for them...especially Gibbs.

But I do agree that this certainly is not a 10-6 team, always have.
If they played 4 quarters instead of a half every game they would be....but....only top teams do that, and the Skins were 5-9 last season with essentially the same team.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Gus,
I believe you are overstating your opinion because you are pissed.
Saunders and Williams are not crappy...but they may be above average.
Gibbs is average and certainly not mediocre and I highly doubt talent will leave due to the coaching....in fact....I believe, the players will be embarrased that they didn't play better for them...especially Gibbs.

But I do agree that this certainly is not a 10-6 team, always have.
If they played 4 quarters instead of a half every game they would be....but....only top teams do that, and the Skins were 5-9 last season with essentially the same team.

Just being overly dramatic. But mediocre does pretty much mean average. How many titles has Saunders or Williams won being assistants(or as HC with Williams)? I have to hand it to Williams, he has come through more oft than not, but Saunders has been crappy. 700+ page playbook, dynamic offense my ass! Not sure next season is going to be any better than this one, just with the probable injuries we will sustain next season alone might drag us down again.

[funked]

OK, so I don't post much. I read this site to calm my nerves after hard losses and revel in great wins.

I'm posting this to vent a little, so bear with me. I don't blame the skins, I blame the NFL.

I don't think the redskins have had a better staff than they have now. Would you rather have Norv Turner and Ray Rhodes? They were the last more successful coaching staff (If I remember right).

The problem is talent, and we are not alone. Look at the NFL standings. Who is really above the cut here? Patriots, Colts, Cowboys (pains me to type that BTW), Steelers, and Packers. Other than that, the rest of the league is mediocre (or really bad - but that's another issue).

In my opinion, teams like the jaguars, giants, seahawks, titans, broncos, eagles, ravens, panthers, bengals, chiefs, etc. have good coaches. But yet they fail to even reach .500 so far this year. Even the teams that are above .500 made it by just a few lucky plays. It's like a league full of even teams. I know that's the point of parity, but I think it's weak.

What I liked about the NFL B.F.A. (before free agency) was that when it was your turn to be a dynasty it was great. The playoffs used to be beyond belief. I remember several 14-2 teams not making the superbowl when I was younger. This year, if you are 14-2 you're in.

So far, the skins this year have proven to be even with the league. A couple bad plays and you lose, a couple good ones and you win. I'm sure it's exciting to watch if you're not a fan of the team and find every close loss excruciatingly painful like I do. There is nothing worse than watching your favorite team blow a lead or fail to tie or win when given the chance.

I don't blame Jason Campbell, the entire team is missing a player here or there. An extra defensive lineman, safety, cornerback, offensive lineman, receiver, or whatever could mean the game. The culprit is the salary cap. Would they have won with Antonio Pierce and Derrick Dockery? Maybe.

The point I'm making is that I don't feel like Joe is to blame. I wish they were better, but without better players, it won't happen. There used to be a lot of good teams in the NFL, now there are less. The skins are just in the 80% of teams out there that haven't found that magic number that takes them further. But whatever, I'll go back to lurking around now...

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by funked

OK, so I don't post much. I read this site to calm my nerves after hard losses and revel in great wins.

I'm posting this to vent a little, so bear with me. I don't blame the skins, I blame the NFL.

I don't think the redskins have had a better staff than they have now. Would you rather have Norv Turner and Ray Rhodes? They were the last more successful coaching staff (If I remember right).

The problem is talent, and we are not alone. Look at the NFL standings. Who is really above the cut here? Patriots, Colts, Cowboys (pains me to type that BTW), Steelers, and Packers. Other than that, the rest of the league is mediocre (or really bad - but that's another issue).

In my opinion, teams like the jaguars, giants, seahawks, titans, broncos, eagles, ravens, panthers, bengals, chiefs, etc. have good coaches. But yet they fail to even reach .500 so far this year. Even the teams that are above .500 made it by just a few lucky plays. It's like a league full of even teams. I know that's the point of parity, but I think it's weak.

What I liked about the NFL B.F.A. (before free agency) was that when it was your turn to be a dynasty it was great. The playoffs used to be beyond belief. I remember several 14-2 teams not making the superbowl when I was younger. This year, if you are 14-2 you're in.

So far, the skins this year have proven to be even with the league. A couple bad plays and you lose, a couple good ones and you win. I'm sure it's exciting to watch if you're not a fan of the team and find every close loss excruciatingly painful like I do. There is nothing worse than watching your favorite team blow a lead or fail to tie or win when given the chance.

I don't blame Jason Campbell, the entire team is missing a player here or there. An extra defensive lineman, safety, cornerback, offensive lineman, receiver, or whatever could mean the game. The culprit is the salary cap. Would they have won with Antonio Pierce and Derrick Dockery? Maybe.

The point I'm making is that I don't feel like Joe is to blame. I wish they were better, but without better players, it won't happen. There used to be a lot of good teams in the NFL, now there are less. The skins are just in the 80% of teams out there that haven't found that magic number that takes them further. But whatever, I'll go back to lurking around now...

Great post.

We aren't the most talented team in the league. We aren't one player away. But we are very competitive as is.

The fact that being competitive doesn't always translate to consistent winning has a lot of folks getting their panties in a bunch. You are 100% right that when competition is had, someone will lose. The concept of parity simply refers to competitive games usually breaking your team's way about half the time. A team that finds itself in a lot of games will necessarily be around .500 at the end of the season. The 12-4 teams tend to not be in a lot of games at the end, as well as the 4-12 teams.

The 9-7 team will decide 12-13 of their games in the final 5 minutes. We are 2-0 in O.T. this year. Not quite as good in regulation. We are a pretty average team. Some people see average as bad, others see it as average. Those who see it as bad think everyone else is being unrealistic, those who see it as average can see that those people don't really have a good perception of reality.

Anyway, great post.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by funked

OK, so I don't post much. I read this site to calm my nerves after hard losses and revel in great wins.

I'm posting this to vent a little, so bear with me. I don't blame the skins, I blame the NFL.

I don't think the redskins have had a better staff than they have now. Would you rather have Norv Turner and Ray Rhodes? They were the last more successful coaching staff (If I remember right).

The problem is talent, and we are not alone. Look at the NFL standings. Who is really above the cut here? Patriots, Colts, Cowboys (pains me to type that BTW), Steelers, and Packers. Other than that, the rest of the league is mediocre (or really bad - but that's another issue).

In my opinion, teams like the jaguars, giants, seahawks, titans, broncos, eagles, ravens, panthers, bengals, chiefs, etc. have good coaches. But yet they fail to even reach .500 so far this year. Even the teams that are above .500 made it by just a few lucky plays. It's like a league full of even teams. I know that's the point of parity, but I think it's weak.

What I liked about the NFL B.F.A. (before free agency) was that when it was your turn to be a dynasty it was great. The playoffs used to be beyond belief. I remember several 14-2 teams not making the superbowl when I was younger. This year, if you are 14-2 you're in.

So far, the skins this year have proven to be even with the league. A couple bad plays and you lose, a couple good ones and you win. I'm sure it's exciting to watch if you're not a fan of the team and find every close loss excruciatingly painful like I do. There is nothing worse than watching your favorite team blow a lead or fail to tie or win when given the chance.

I don't blame Jason Campbell, the entire team is missing a player here or there. An extra defensive lineman, safety, cornerback, offensive lineman, receiver, or whatever could mean the game. The culprit is the salary cap. Would they have won with Antonio Pierce and Derrick Dockery? Maybe.

The point I'm making is that I don't feel like Joe is to blame. I wish they were better, but without better players, it won't happen. There used to be a lot of good teams in the NFL, now there are less. The skins are just in the 80% of teams out there that haven't found that magic number that takes them further. But whatever, I'll go back to lurking around now...

You should post more often.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Rhaamses,
I'm the guy on the chat that you have been giving updates to...thanks so much....too bad it didn't go our way.
BTW....
I love Keenan!
sign him for 2 more years....he is clutch like cooley

Keenan has been a great pick-up for us, but I really didn't like the decision to put him in on punt returns. I'd like someone a bit more explosive back there.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Just being overly dramatic. But mediocre does pretty much mean average. How many titles has Saunders or Williams won being assistants(or as HC with Williams)? I have to hand it to Williams, he has come through more oft than not, but Saunders has been crappy. 700+ page playbook, dynamic offense my ass! Not sure next season is going to be any better than this one, just with the probable injuries we will sustain next season alone might drag us down again.

I dunno. I'm torn when it comes to Saunders. His offense did manage to put up 320+ yards in a half against the #1 defense in the NFC. His offense also managed to put up 350 passing yards against Dallas. It seems like when the players execute, this offense can be dynamic. It's not Saunders' fault that Portis fumbles twice, Moss fumbles once, JC throws picks at critical times. But for those mistakes in the past two games and the horrid player execution against GB, we're sitting at 8-3 and people are talking about what a genius Saunders is.

People can say "Ifs" don't mean sh-t all they like, but dispute what I said above before doing so.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by funked

OK, so I don't post much. I read this site to calm my nerves after hard losses and revel in great wins.

I'm posting this to vent a little, so bear with me. I don't blame the skins, I blame the NFL.

I don't think the redskins have had a better staff than they have now. Would you rather have Norv Turner and Ray Rhodes? They were the last more successful coaching staff (If I remember right).

The problem is talent, and we are not alone. Look at the NFL standings. Who is really above the cut here? Patriots, Colts, Cowboys (pains me to type that BTW), Steelers, and Packers. Other than that, the rest of the league is mediocre (or really bad - but that's another issue).

In my opinion, teams like the jaguars, giants, seahawks, titans, broncos, eagles, ravens, panthers, bengals, chiefs, etc. have good coaches. But yet they fail to even reach .500 so far this year. Even the teams that are above .500 made it by just a few lucky plays. It's like a league full of even teams. I know that's the point of parity, but I think it's weak.

What I liked about the NFL B.F.A. (before free agency) was that when it was your turn to be a dynasty it was great. The playoffs used to be beyond belief. I remember several 14-2 teams not making the superbowl when I was younger. This year, if you are 14-2 you're in.

So far, the skins this year have proven to be even with the league. A couple bad plays and you lose, a couple good ones and you win. I'm sure it's exciting to watch if you're not a fan of the team and find every close loss excruciatingly painful like I do. There is nothing worse than watching your favorite team blow a lead or fail to tie or win when given the chance.

I don't blame Jason Campbell, the entire team is missing a player here or there. An extra defensive lineman, safety, cornerback, offensive lineman, receiver, or whatever could mean the game. The culprit is the salary cap. Would they have won with Antonio Pierce and Derrick Dockery? Maybe.

The point I'm making is that I don't feel like Joe is to blame. I wish they were better, but without better players, it won't happen. There used to be a lot of good teams in the NFL, now there are less. The skins are just in the 80% of teams out there that haven't found that magic number that takes them further. But whatever, I'll go back to lurking around now...

So what your saying is to remove the cap so Snyder can buy better players. The talent is still there its just that a few of the bigger teams cannot just go out and get every player they want. Now the talent is spread over more of the teams.

[TampaDude]

The Redskins turned the ball over in their end FOUR TIMES in the first half and still almost won the game. Credit the D for that. The Skins could easily have been down 35-3 at the half.

[funked]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So what your saying is to remove the cap so Snyder can buy better players. The talent is still there its just that a few of the bigger teams cannot just go out and get every player they want. Now the talent is spread over more of the teams.

Touche, it's hard to be anti-salary cap when Dan Snyder is anywhere around, the cap is almost entirely focused on his style of ownership.

I don't really know enough about the salary cap to have a qualified opinion, but I would find it interesting if they would give you a break (or a bigger break if there already is one) if you were re-signing your own players versus signing free agents. Maybe even raise it a little. It would help keep teams together, add importance to good drafting, and as a side effect maybe strengthen rivalries that have been weakened via players switching to the other side for cash (I'm still a little angry about signing Deion Sanders, I mean wtf).

But it may not just be salary cap based, the new teams in the league may also have contributed to the "watering down" of the NFL. 32 teams full of starters versus 28 is a big difference in talent per team.

A third concept is that it may just be a random weak year like when the Ravens won. No disrespect to their win because their defense was legendary, but the league was poor that year.