Government shutdown 2018

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Is there going to be a wall around the whole country ,becuase unless there is ...................It's BS,33 billion dollars of BS.What about Hawaii and Alaska how do you stop "illegal immigration" in those place's???Is the wall going around FL or Me.?

Thanks for the non-responsive response

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The only comment in the article from Graham was this:


That is an opinion[2 a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge a person of rigid opinions].
It is a strong opinion from a person with a stake in the process, but nothing in those paragraphs are facts.

Your spin is not very good.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...daca_deal.html

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Thanks for the non-responsive response

Way to get around the issue by deflection,a true supporter of trump I see.

[CRedskinsRule]

I didn't deflect. I asked for a specific example of a failed wall and you gave a answer that was basically filled with dumb comments. If you can cite 2 failed walls I will gladly debunk your obviously fallacious arguments.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Your spin is not very good.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...daca_deal.html

You try to disprove my statement by linking an article that rehashes the quote I used. Makes 0 sense.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

And Mooby I think that part of the overall border security provisions it would have to include electronic and personnel improvements as well as the physical wall

Is the wall worth the cost if it only keeps out immigrant refugees seeking a better life for their family? What if it barely puts a dent in cartel profits? I only say that because I believe only a small portion of drugs comes into this country via unsecured border land, i.e. on backpacks. It's not going to stop smuggling it in through legal border crossings where they hide it behind a fender, or disguise it inside a truckload of pineapples. Or when they fly it in via drone, or plane, or homemade trebuchet's. Or when they build submarines that barely go beneath the surface.

The bigger problem imo is the demand for serious drugs like meth, coke, heroin, etc. but we will only be able to face that problem when we acknowledge mental health is as serious as physical health. We're a long ways away from that.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I seriously don't understand the narrative that a wall would not make a difference. I can give examples from ancient times to modern day eastern European countries who have greatly reduced refugees with border walls. Can anyone cite an example of a wall that failed without a foreign invading army involved?

Or would anyone want to live next to a maximum security prison that had no physical walls and just video surveillance?

There are more than enough examples of working border walls throughout history. I am just interested in examples where a wall did not significantly reduce external intrusions into a country. (Again not talking about foreign army invasions)

Are you comparing Mexico to a maximum security prison? Lol.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I seriously don't understand the narrative that a wall would not make a difference. I can give examples from ancient times to modern day eastern European countries who have greatly reduced refugees with border walls. Can anyone cite an example of a wall that failed without a foreign invading army involved?

Or would anyone want to live next to a maximum security prison that had no physical walls and just video surveillance?

There are more than enough examples of working border walls throughout history. I am just interested in examples where a wall did not significantly reduce external intrusions into a country. (Again not talking about foreign army invasions)

Read this. It might make you look at the multi billion dollar wall differently.
http://www.latimes.com/local/califor...017-story.html

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I didn't deflect. I asked for a specific example of a failed wall and you gave a answer that was basically filled with dumb comments. If you can cite 2 failed walls I will gladly debunk your obviously fallacious arguments.

Yes you did .I asked you a question ,now you answer it.


Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
Is there going to be a wall around the whole country ,becuase unless there is ...................It's BS,33 billion dollars of BS.What about Hawaii and Alaska how do you stop "illegal immigration" in those place's???Is the wall going around FL or Me.?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Read this. It might make you look at the multi billion dollar wall differently.
http://www.latimes.com/local/califor...017-story.html

It is an ok article, and has several good points that can and should be done in addition to the wall. What it does not do is show any evidence of a wall in any time in history that failed to reduce the number of successful border crossings.

In dealing with border security you have multiple sides to the issue. The article deals with reducing incentives to cross the borders, and we can do more on that front. The wall deals with the physical trafficking across the border and we should address that side of the issue as well.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

I wonder what the wall is going to do about the tunnel epidemic, which is a major contributor to illegal drugs/human trafficking coming in. Speaking of illegal drugs coming in....



Chico I know this is a personal question so feel free to not answer, but you smoke right? You are breaking federal law when you smoke. Speaking of smoking, which got a pass under Obama, Sessions recently just announced the rollback of those Obama era protections right? If you don't mind me asking, where do you get your supply from? Do you grow it yourself? If you're buying your favorite strain off the street, have you verified where it came from? What if it came in the country on the back of a cartel member, would you care? What if it came in the country on a handmade rickety cart that crossed the border underground?

S/N another problem to beefing up border security is the whole "not enough good applicants" thing. CBP already has a problem with agents leaving for better law enforcement jobs where the terrain isn't nearly as rough and the pay is just as good if not better.

Just to be clear, if Trump wants to beef up border security, hire more agents, invest in technology that makes their jobs easier, etc. I'm all for it. But if his plan is "build the wall" it won't be good enough.

From what I’ve seen over the last 5 years, most of the weed I see is high grade and is coming mostly from California...but recently DC connection opened up. I’m not a heavy smoker...actually tailed off from maybe weekly to maybe monthly during that same period... Too busy.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by mooby

Punch, it's a win. Trump/right get what they want, the left doesn't get what they want. We call that winning. There can't be any winning on both sides of the aisle, that's not how this works. There will always be a loser to counteract the winner.

Cred/Chico are you going to hold the Republican leaders of Congress responsible if they pretend like they didn't promise to revisit the issue in good faith by Feb 8th?

Pisses me off classic democrats. Ask for very little and get even less. How you cannot close the deal on a widely popular DACA that has overwhelming bipartisan support is beyond me.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Yes you did .I asked you a question ,now you answer it.


Originally Posted by Giantone View Post
Is there going to be a wall around the whole country ,becuase unless there is ...................It's BS,33 billion dollars of BS.What about Hawaii and Alaska how do you stop "illegal immigration" in those place's???Is the wall going around FL or Me.?

How about this, you answer my question (I asked first) then I will answer yours. Seems fair

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

Pisses me off classic democrats. Ask for very little and get even less. How you cannot close the deal on a widely popular DACA that has overwhelming bipartisan support is beyond me.

There will be a deal over DACA, but you don't close down government a month and a half before the deadline, and draw an erasable line in the sand. The reason they chose last weekend was 2 fold, and both politically motivated by their base's hate for Trump.
1) it's a black eye for any president to have a government shutdown on the 1 year anniversary of his inauguration

2) if they could have sustained it to next week they could have held the State of the Union hostage.

Ultimately they won't feel much backlash - no one who is upset they caved is ever going to vote for a Republican, so it was worth a shot to score some anti Trump points.

[Chico23231]

This shutdown was a charade...but yet some will say this person won, that person won...folks no one really won. These typical "politics as usual" tactics are shameful...So if you like the swamp and politics as usual then you probably liked what the Dems did. Whether you like our President or hate him...I think its refreshing that we have an administration that is not doing the status quo, I enjoy them of resisting the false narratives in the media and actually approaching issues.

But the facts are facts...lotta things getting done and we seeing the benefits.