Why are we giving Gibbs a pass?

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by 4mrusmc

Let me first say that a appreciate what Joe Gibbs has done as our coach. But, I for one am not pleased with the way our team is being built. It seems every year that us "arm chair quaterbacks" know what our strengths and weaknesses are. And come draft day our team president comes out of left field somewhere with some crazy draft day pick-ups. We have to ask our selves, "what are we developing as a team, and per player and their position". We throw away draft picks, and over pay for over-hyped free agents. This we know is true. But, I am definitely not happy with the finished product. This is Joe's fourth year to get this thing right, and probably his last. We as fans demand better, and we have definitely suffered long enough. Look, I love this team just like you guys, but come on, how many post game shows can you stand to hear our coach say, "that team was tough, and our guys fought their guts out." It's time to have some kind of sensible plan, and to execute that plan come game day Joe! You may fire when ready............

..Ugh! :tongue

[Schneed10]

So much of a team's success is tied to the QB, we all know this.

When Gibbs came back in 2004 we had nobody worth a crap on the roster at QB. I think the team overpaid for Brunell, but honestly who else was available? Jeff Garcia was just let go from the 49ers, but he played dismally in Detroit and Cleveland because the supporting cast was miserable. I don't think he would have done any better than Brunell did with the 'Skins. You could argue that the Skins should have drafted a QB right out of the gates - but we had the 5th pick and missed out on a shot at Eli or Phillip Rivers who went 1 and 4 respectively. Roethlisberger was available for our pick at 5, he went to Pitt at #11. But look at the difference between Roethlisberger with a surrounding cast like the 2005 Steelers and a terrible supporting cast like the 2006 Steelers. He may have won a SB, but I'm not buying that he's anything special at QB. So even to this day, I can still see the logic in the Brunell move, though maybe lowering the price tag woulda made sense.

As for the legacy of Gibbs II, it's largely going to depend upon the success of Jason Campbell. The D was a problem last year, but you have to like GW's chances of at least getting them back to average. Given that, Campbell is what will define the 'Skins in 2007 and in the years to come. If he develops into a pro-bowler, making plays on a consistent basis, then when Gibbs leaves us for the final time, we will be a playoff contender year in and year out. And at that point, I'd credit him for having the conviction to stand up and trade a lot for a guy he thought was worth it; Gibbs would deserve the credit for returning us to legitimacy.

Look at Manning, Brady, Brees, McNabb, Hasselbeck, and Carson Palmer. They've all established themselves as excellent leaders and consistent QBs, and consequently their teams are perennial playoff favorites. If Campbell develops into that kind of QB, then Gibbs II will have been an excellent coaching stint. And until we know what Campbell's really made of, the jury is still out on Joe Gibbs the second.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Roethlisberger was available for our pick at 5, he went to Pitt at #11. But look at the difference between Roethlisberger with a surrounding cast like the 2005 Steelers and a terrible supporting cast like the 2006 Steelers. He may have won a SB, but I'm not buying that he's anything special at QB. So even to this day, I can still see the logic in the Brunell move, though maybe lowering the price tag woulda made sense.

I think Roethlisberger is right on track to become one of the best QBs in the league.

I think what you saw his first two years is a guy who had a very simple role in his offense. An offense that only throws 35-40% of the time, and allows for some primo passing lanes off play action. I don't think Roethlisberger was doing anything that any other veteran QB (possible exception to Tommy Maddox) couldn't have done with ease, although it IS impressive that he did it at such a young age.

What happened this year was simple, and it had nothing to do with the motorcycle accident. He simply regressed to his expected 3rd year line after playing well above it for two seasons. The explination regression was two-fold in nature.

1) It was inevitable. Roethlisberger had been well outplaying his age and experience level even for one of the greatest QBs in NFL history (of which he will never be). He was going to come back to earth sometime, and I'm just shocked that he kept it going for the better part of two years.

2) He didn't have the security blanket around him that he did the prior two years. No longer could he just complete a few 3rd down passes and throw TDs off play action and be one of the best QBs in the league. He had to make more throws, and more throws always will create a better indication of how good a guy really is.

Roethlisberger will continue to improve now as a player, but its obvious that those people who were ready to put him into Canton over the first two years of his career should think a lot longer before they react.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by hooskins

No one likes my Soviet Russia joke...

I thought it was funny, but I can't say I approve of pleading for recognition in this way. You have to do the funny for funny's sake. I think that Yakov would agree with me.

[Campbell17]

Dude, with all due respect, do you even know how much Gibbs has done for our franchise? Take a little pop-quiz:

1. Who has coached four out of our 5 Super bowls and one three of them?

2. Who got our team Clinton Portis?

3. Who made a 5-6 team, mid-way in to our 2005-06 season 10-6 and into the NFC Conference Semi's?

4.Who has developed young stars in Campbell, Rogers, and Betts?

If you didn't say gibbs to all of these, you shouldn't be posting this.

[over the mountain]

100% agree with everything you said Schneed10 . . . quarterback is the most important position to have a long term return starter and we just havent had that even though we thought we had that with ramsey i give Gibbs credit for recognizing that he turns the ball over too much and will always be a decent but not spectacular .500 win player . . . campbell has everything going for him and that is also to gibbs credit, hes got a great veteran group of guys blocking for him, 2 great backs keeping the D honest plus 3 burners catching the ball . . . thats a pretty good foundation we have going for us (a lil youth on the OL would be nice) and in a year or 2 we will be entering into the early years of a skins dynasty

[4mrusmc]

Yeah but, this is a TEAM sport. And I think our team building plan is flawed. This past season you threw away alot in arch, and duckett. We had a chance to get better at linebacker, and I'm not too sure if we did. And we haven't done jack with our feeble D-line. Sure Gibbs has done a great job of stimulating us fans and giving us hope. But, those three trophies that we like to parade out for press conferences are old news. I'm hungry for a new one, and the method that that this team is using to go about getting one leaves me wondering about their mission statement at Redskin Park.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

I thought it was funny, but I can't say I approve of pleading for recognition in this way. You have to do the funny for funny's sake. I think that Yakov would agree with me.

This is true.

[redskins159]

Joe Gibbs is a HALL OF FAME COACH...he will get this team back to the superbowl

[over the mountain]

yeah our overall team plan has taken a couple of bad turns early but over the past 2 years we have added fletcher, smoot, mcintosh, lloyd, carter, ARE, campbell (all core guys) in exchange for dockery and some dead cap space for arch (thanks G Williams!) . . . . am i forgeting any important players that we lost over the last 2 years? plus we have the 6th pick to add a potential high caliber player (hopefully Dline) . . . i think we are starting to build a superbowl team, I just worry about that cap window closing on us before we get a ring

[ncskinsfanec]

Did somebody say broken record? I don't even think I can count the number of times this topic has been brought up. Give the man another season at least before we bring this tired subject up again. I mean he did help end our recent playoff drought (which a lot of people have already conveniently forgotten) and he is also very well respected by the players. I think it's a great situation that a lot of teams would love to have!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 4mrusmc

2005 was great, it's 2007 now, and our plan for building a team that can compete on any given Sunday is what I question. All of this off-season rumor, and free agent acquisitions leave me scratching my head. What pieces of the puzzle are we putting in place to be great again? I feel that we are being herded like sheep.

So you are jumping on Gibbs because of off season RUMORS? Ok,