Gibbs needs help

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Right. So why all the fuss over CooleyFan calling Norval's scheme West Coast?

In the widely accepted interpretation of what is considered a "West Coast" offense, Norv Turner's offense doesn't exactly fit the bill. His might be a relation to it. It's kind of like the biblical argument of all of us being related to Adam and Eve. All offenses are based off of another offense - except in the case of Steve Spurrier where he made it up as he went along!

[Beemnseven]

I don't want Norv back either, but believe it or not, I read somewhere that right before the Raider game, Joe Gibbs commented that he'd been impressed with Turner back when he was with the Rams and probably should have hired him earlier on.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

When someone says 'West Coast', sorry but Norv Turner doesn't come to mind, neither does Gibbs. I think Walsh, Holmgren, Reid, Mariucci, etc.

If we want to be technical about it and trace the roots and all that crap fine, but I doubt that's what the original post was referring to.

I think it would be helpful to use Matty K's defenition which is the commonly accepted one.

"West Coast" refers to:
Bill Walsh
Sam Wyche
Marty S
Paul Hackett
Mike Holmgren and all of his GB assistants

Furthermore, I propose the term "San Diego Offense" for the Coryell/Gibbs/Zampese movement which would cover Sid Gillman as well since he coached the Chargers in the 60s.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I don't want Norv back either, but believe it or not, I read somewhere that right before the Raider game, Joe Gibbs commented that he'd been impressed with Turner back when he was with the Rams and probably should have hired him earlier on.

I believe I remember watching an interview where Gibbs made the same comment, but he was laughing about it.

[CooleyFan]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

The whole "West Coast" offense thing is thoroughly confusing, even for football fans who pay attention. I, myself didn't fully understand exactly which offense it was -- Bill Walsh's in San Fransisco? Or Don Coryell's in San Diego? Anyway, it was an old article by Dr. Z in SI that TAFKAS linked to that finally explained it.

Everyone thinks of it today as short passing, slants, halfback and fullback lined up close together in the backfield, blah, blah, blah ... we all associate it with what Joe Montana and Steve Young ran with the 49ers, and the long line of coaches who studied under Walsh that followed it -- Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, and Andy Reid.

In fact, the real "West Coast" offense was originally the very same offensive scheme that Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Ernie Zampese, Mike Martz all run today who followed Don Coryell while he coached the Chargers before Bill Walsh ever coached at San Fran. According to the article, when Bill Walsh first heard the term, "West Coast", he didn't care for it, because he picked it up under Paul Brown in Cincinnati.

So CooleyFan, yet again, is actually correct in referring Norv Turner's attack as "West Coast" offense, at least in its original and literal sense.

Thank you. F-off all you haters.

[CooleyFan]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

In the widely accepted interpretation of what is considered a "West Coast" offense, Norv Turner's offense doesn't exactly fit the bill. His might be a relation to it. It's kind of like the biblical argument of all of us being related to Adam and Eve. All offenses are based off of another offense - except in the case of Steve Spurrier where he made it up as he went along!

See this terd backpeddling? You got told by someone other than me, now give it up. You were WRONG.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by CooleyFan

Thank you. F-off all you haters.

When you said you wanted a West Coast guy like Norv here, were you really thinking of the original West Coast offense. Or were you thinking of the Bill Walsh West Coast offense?

And what did you mean by "Bill Musgrave. West Coast? No!!!" That he doesn't know the West Coast, or the WC doesn't work?

[CooleyFan]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

When you said you wanted a West Coast guy like Norv here, were you really thinking of the original West Coast offense. Or were you thinking of the Bill Walsh West Coast offense?

And what did you mean by "Bill Musgrave. West Coast? No!!!" That he doesn't know the West Coast, or the WC doesn't work?

I was just pissed and bashed Bill, and the whole West Coast themed offenses. I thought bringing him in would get Brunell back on track, and perhaps get Joe to modernize to some West Coast schemes. Didn't happen, we stayed with Gibbs offense, and I just needed someone to bash when I saw Alexander jumping up and down clapping like a golf fag, while he's supposed to be slightly concussed. Didn't look concussed, did he?

The reason I was so mad was because I know the reason Shaun Alexander played pussy that game. He thought the Seahawks could ward us off without putting his health on the line. I bet he didn't get a concussion. Either he wanted to stay healthy without getting critisizm, or he was afraid of Sean Taylor.

In conclusion, I bashed Musgrave because I was bitter, and I heard somewhere he was going to be adding his thoughts in the offense because he had such a good chemistry with Brunell. Obviously, now I know he had nothing to do with it, but him being incorporated with Brunell, he was easiest to bash after that loss.

[SanFranSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by CooleyFan

Now, let me just start this out by saying....


Joe Gibbs has given me a reason to believe in my Redskins once again. Gibby needs help. Musgrave sucks. West Coast? No. The NFL isn't going to be slow enough for the counter tray, or these line pulls anymore. It's a dying breed of offense, and there is no place in football for it anymore. We need to go out in the off season and get an offensive mind to help poor Joe. I love Joe, but I need to say what everyone else is scared to say. He's too old.

I think if we got a good West Coast guy... like (i hate to say it) but ol' Norval Turner, maybe we can establish more of a deep impact. I friggin hate Norv, but he is an offensive mind. Have you guys seen the forlorn looks on ol' Joe's face everytime the offense falters? He can't understand the fast pace game. I know I'm gonna get hate mail, but it needs to be addressed. I know Joe is a genius, and I hope he proves me wrong, but he will NOT take us to a SuperBowl. I hope he proves me wrong.

I think hiring Al Saunders and allowing him to call plays is a great move for the Redskins. Gibbs is going to have to convince players to take salary cuts and attract free agents for reasonable prices. He now can operate the team like his NASCAR team, where he oversees everything as CEO. Since Saunders will be calling plays, they will be drawing up the game plans together and Saunders can incorporate his skills from the Chiefs offense which has actually averaged more points than the Colts over the last few years. Gibbs will have a bigger impact with more energy, and we do need another fast RB like Portis to steal in the late round of the draft, but we should be in good shape for a playoff run next year. This is great for Gibbs and the whole staff since Saunders was trained in same UCLA offense, San Diego offense, that Gibbs and he ran with Coryell.....