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03-05-2014, 11:31 AM | #1 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
Putin is becoming a big pain but I cant help but think that all our proxy wars with former USSR nations that border current Russia (attempting nato missile defense system in Poland and Turkey, steering Ukraine pro EU/West, totally destabilizing Iraq, sanctioning Iran) is the reason.
We have effed with Russia repeatedly with countries right at their door step and Putin is right to say the US sits across the pond and treats other countries like lab rats in political experiments. I despise Putin but we are serious international jerks. I also think Putin was very dumb to act so unilaterally and aggressively and the US and EU can really capitalize on this opportunity. No one is standing with Russia on this. Russian economy has lost over 75 billion on Monday alone. USA can now justify some of their clandestine political interference.
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03-05-2014, 06:25 PM | #2 | |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
Quote:
Please don't blame any of what Putin is doing to Ukraine on us. He did the same thing to Georgia: "Russify" a region over time, then split that territory off into a client state friendly to Russia. We aren't treating other countries as lab experiments. A better analogy would be that Putin is playing Go with/on Eastern Europe. |
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03-05-2014, 12:32 PM | #3 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
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03-05-2014, 12:34 PM | #4 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
Crimea is lost. Unfortunately, the EU nor the US saw this coming and when we did we were too slow to act. Still think Russia may not stop at Crimea, Putin is a serious threat to the rest of the Ukraine and quite frankly, Im surprised we are not seeing this and reacting.
Any type of sanctions are slow moving and you cant just flick a switch unless you are throughly prepared. Obama, the US government and our intelligent community werent prepared for Russia to invade. To the rest of the world, this is an embarrassment for the Europeans and especially the US. I think if we should respond at least with something else besides costs or threats.
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03-05-2014, 02:14 PM | #5 | |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
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We are not protectors of the world (despite the world police argument and stuff). We didn't let any bad thing happen. Russia has been frog marching the Crimea since WWII anyway. We don't owe the Crimeans anything.
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03-05-2014, 12:40 PM | #6 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
I dont think this is an embarrassment to the US. (syria is another story). Engaging in a knee jerk military response would be costly, divisive and ultimately produce the same result as applying sanctions.
i like to think "what would china do"? China would use this act of aggression to further isolate russia and damage their economy for the next 2 decades. I think this is an embarrassment to Putin. He over-played his hand and is not sure how to untie his hands while saving face. Does the benefits of Crimea (or however you spell it) outweigh the long term damage this will do to the russian economy? i think the business sector of russia is pissed. a govt conducted poll of russians found 80% disapproved of the invasion. this could be a huge benefit to the US if we play our cards right.
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03-05-2014, 12:46 PM | #7 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
What OTM said.
Unfortunately, the brains trust at 1600 will turn it into an epic fail. |
03-05-2014, 02:21 PM | #8 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
People forgetting the treaty we signed with Russia and the Ukraine.
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03-05-2014, 03:11 PM | #9 | |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
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You want the US military in The Ukraine? You want a shooting war with Russia? You're talking about guaranteeing the Ukraines sovereignty? We would have to counter-invade the Crimea to do that.
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03-05-2014, 03:12 PM | #10 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
I dont want a shooting war with anybody
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03-05-2014, 03:15 PM | #11 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
Well I doubt they will leave if we ask nicely.
And since they are the third largest energy producer in the world any sanctions wont do bupkiss. So we are left with diplomacy..........
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03-05-2014, 03:54 PM | #12 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
I remember many of these same people talking about how we were helping the people in Iraq by "liberating" them and giving them freedom. Guess freedom and liberating isn't so noble in Ukraine.
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03-05-2014, 04:01 PM | #13 | |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
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Going up against Saddams military vs Putins is vastly different. Unless you're interested in seeing 10's of thousands of Americans die in the Ukraine. Not to mention the nukes. I'm pretty sure the aggressor has nukes this time.
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03-05-2014, 04:29 PM | #14 | |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
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Oh, so we only bully those with less weaponry? I guess that's how we rate people's scale of "freedom". Even if we did go to war with Russia, they wouldn't use nukes. I don't think any country will ever use them after seeing the aftermath of our 2 atomic bombs.
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03-05-2014, 04:10 PM | #15 |
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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
Its wierd isnt it? A treaty is a commitment to the international community, not just the nation. We told the Ukranians we, along with the UK and (maybe others, unsure) we will defend them. But yet we let a criminal (ukraine president) escape to Russia, who then invades the Ukraine because a criminal asked them.
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