Moss for Coles (merged)

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by juggernaunt

i do not like the idea coles 4 moss. i rather trade coles to either jets or ravens 4 picks. moss hasnt played up to his hype coming out of miami + i dont think he's played a full year. i say this cause multiple picks in the first round would help us more. with our pick we can take Willaims WR or Rolle, if we take a corner then we can grab a WR' with one of their 1st rounders. I said this in January we need a GODAMN GM and FIRE VINNY CERRATO. . did we not learn this past year especially on the DEF that names dont win games.

What are we going to do with more picks? Do you really think that by drafting a couple more 1st rounders will make our team better? I don't think so.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by juggernaunt

i do not like the idea coles 4 moss. i rather trade coles to either jets or ravens 4 picks. moss hasnt played up to his hype coming out of miami + i dont think he's played a full year. i say this cause multiple picks in the first round would help us more. with our pick we can take Willaims WR or Rolle, if we take a corner then we can grab a WR' with one of their 1st rounders. I said this in January we need a GODAMN GM and FIRE VINNY CERRATO. . did we not learn this past year especially on the DEF that names dont win games.

I agree completely...

[SKINSnCANES]

Moss hasnt been given a chance to play anywhere near his potential. He didnt play much at all his first two years. They finally used him in 2003, he had huge numbers, and they still wernt maximizing his potential. This was supposed to be a huge year for him but Pennington never got him the ball. Remeber teh jets in the first like 8 games, they had no good fantasy receivers becuase they would have like 8 guys catch two balls a game. The deep bomb to moss in teh playoffs is the type of stuff moss is good at, his blazing freaking fast.

I think getting a guy like Moss makes losing coles of little consequence. You know what risk you are taking. You arent hoping to get someone in the draft that you have to groom. And it sure as hell is better than just cutting him.

[firstdown]

I don't think we should trade CL at all. He signed the deal took the money and now wants out. The cap hit I saw was over 9mil thats way to big of a hit to take for a disgruntled baby. If your worried about his effect on the team I think Lavar can handle that. How many teams have we seen in the past that hung on to a disgruntled player and everything worked out. When training camp starts this will all blow over. I do not blame Coles for being disgruntled. If I was him and watched my coach leave a qb in as bad as Brunell I would want out too. He just needs to get past last year.

[SKINSnCANES]

5. Santana Moss, Miami (Fla.) -- Qualifies as one of the top playmakers in the draft, able to beat you as both a wideout and punt returner. And while he's just 5-9½ and 185 pounds, Moss shows the toughness to finish plays that are directed to the middle of the field. If he were a couple of inches taller, you would more than likely be looking at a top-five pick instead of a mid-first-rounder. Drafted by NY Jets, first round (16th)

SANTANA MOSS, Miami, 5-9, 185 — A fourth-year senior who came to Miami on a track scholarship and walked on to the football team...A three-year starter who has got better every year — catching 30 passes for 681 yards and eight touchdowns in ‘98, 54-889-6 in 1999 and 45-748-5 last year, despite being slowed much of the season with left ankle tendinitis...From his numbers, it’s obvious he is a big-play receiver who picks up yardage in bunches...A dangerous punt returner...Finished seventh in the Heisman Trophy balloting...Between receptions, punt returns and reverses, he scored 10 touchdowns last year and averaged 17 yards every time he touched the ball...Has a monstrous 42-inch vertical jump, which helps make up for his lack of size — viewed as his primary drawback...Willing to fight for the ball...Very muscular for a wide receiver...Scored six touchdowns on punt returns the last two seasons...Size will be his primary hindrence...Won the Big East track titles for long jump and triple jump last year...Did not work out at the Combine.
PROJECTION: A dangerous gamebreaker, but, in the era of big wide receivers, he will have to be a change-of-pace guy who doesn’t fit the prototype mold. Even so, expect to see him go in the first half of the first round.

I'll keep digging up some descriptions of him. Until I watched Devin Hester run this year, i didnt think I would ever see a better punt returner in college football.

Im going to try and find the quote, but they asked Butch Davis what he thought about how everyone says moss is to small to be a receiver, he said somethign to the effect of he has never seen anyone be able to out jump him and come down with a ball.

If we get Moss, we still need another receiver to step up and take pressure off of him so he can run the deep routes. Hopefully Jacobs will step up this year. Id say look for us to draft defense and not a recevier, thats where our team is trying to win right now.

[celts32]

He has to go at this point. Gibbs said publicly that any player that does not want to be on the team will be accomodated. Gibbs wants a team of guys that want to be Redskins and for him to keep Coles after this thing got so public would kind of undermind the stance he has taken. Gibbs is a man that is all about his credibility so I just can't see how he can bring Coles back.

[MTK]

All the experts had Moss as their breakout player before last season, injuries slowed him down obviously.

That's my only concern about him, keeping him healthy. He can't do any damage sitting on the bench.

When he's healthy and on the field he's explosive. In his first 4 years in the league he has 12 catches over 40 yards.

Coles over his first 4 years in comparison had 7 over 40.

[MTK]

Despite his injuries last year he still had decent numbers, 45 catches, 838 yards (18.6 avg) and 5 scores.

[SKINSnCANES]

Moss was having a bad year with pennington, when chad went down and carter came in then moss started having huge games. Clearly pennington preferred coles and didnt use moss that much. Ramsey needs to get on teh same page as moss and he cna be huge

[DCopper04]

This trade is a good deal for both teams. It is a better deal for the Jets than it is for the Skins, but I believe that Washington will benefit from it nonetheless.

It's obvious that this deal will help the Jets. 9 of 10 people would agree that Coles is the better of the two receivers. Most would agree that Coles is one of the top-10 receivers in the league, and getting him at such a low cost over the next 5 years is a bargain to say the least. Coles' toe does present a small risk to the Jets, but it is a negligible one.

The Skins benefit because they are getting rid of a problem player who does not want to be there. The alternative to trading Coles (simply releasing him outright) would immediately save $5M in cap room, but the Skins would be left empty-handed. Granted, Moss is not the receiver that Coles is, but he is no chump. Plus, Coles' refusal to get surgery was contradictory to Washington's plans, and you cannot have a player who will only do what is best for himself, and not the team.

I think the resistance to this trade comes from the fact that it is obvious that NY is getting a better deal than Washington. Fans don't want to feel like their team just got whored in a deal that was much better for the other team. The deal should be made anyway; ball clubs cannot be afraid of getting bitched by other teams. They have to do what is best for themselves in the long run. Good move Dan Snyder.

[SmootSmack]

I think the big number for Moss is 18.6 ypc, that's what we're missing

[celts32]

I think my biggest problem with this is not Coles for Moss becasue I actually think they are similar in skill. I just would have rather gotten a draft pick. I think if they got the Samuels deal done they could have taken offers from the 3 or 4 teams that were suposedly interested and maybe gotten a #1 pick for Coles. As usual I think they may be jumping in with both feet before they tested the waters...

The first thing they needed to do was finish up with Samuels today and then use the weekend in Indy to field offers from all the interested teams and take the best offer. It just alwasy seems like the skins rush into things...

[SKINSnCANES]

We need a guy that makes you miss and make plays. i thought coles would do that but he didnt. He got the ball 90 times and didnt break hardly any except the one play at the end of the dallas game. why didnt he have the intensity everyplay? Coles could have been great with us and i wish he would stay, but he didnt have the heart that he needed and we dotn need that

[celts32]

Did Coles big plays disapear when Gibbs got to DC or did they disapear back when he hurt that toe? Although I don't love this trade I certainly will not miss LC and his untreatable neverending toe injury....

[Schneed10]

No, I think Coles had heart and played hard with a lot of effort, I just think he couldn't cut like he wanted to with the toe. And since he's not getting it fixed, it is probably better that he's movin on out.

Moss is a big play guy with the big Yards Per Catch number, but let's not overrate him here, he's not a true #1 receiver. We're going to need another guy to line up across from him and attract attention, or else defenses are just going to roll a safety over to handle Moss on deep routes. If the Redskins can't keep the safeties honest with another receiver, Moss's big-play ability is going to be limited, because he's just not going to outmuscle a double team like TO can, or out-jump one like Randy Moss can. Maybe Taylor Jacobs can step up and be big for us, I don't know. But if we don't have a good receiver to go with Moss, I don't think the passing game will improve that much.

We should still be looking to land another WR if possible. I'd prefer restructuring Samuels for the cap room to resign Pierce and go get a Derrick Mason. But drafting a Mike Williams or a Troy Williamson would be nice too.