Joe2 Legacy2 will be?

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

C'mon man. You've got to be kidding me. Don't you think you're going a little overboard here? I love JG's. But to say Gibbs 2 was great is just way off. Let's face it. The offense is his side of the ball. He has nothing to do with the defense. His offense, as far as scoring points was concerned, wasn't very good. Blown 2nd half leads, poor clock mgt, his loyalty to Brunell and conservative play calling were things he could control. For the most part he did a below average job in these areas. You know if Zorn makes the same game day mistakes Gibbs did, he'd be run out of town. If it wasn't for GW's defense then we don't win the playoff game at TB. 3/4 years GW fielded a top 10 defense with average to slightly above talent and he was run out of town. Let's not let our love for Gibbs stand in the way of giving an objective opinion about his is 2nd go around.

JG didn't have the luxury of giving his backup QB a few years to sit on the bench and learn like Rypien and Humphries, that's why he stuck with Brunnell because of his experience (eventhought he was over the hill) gave us the best chance to win. i still say that JG didn't live to the expectations (for some of you guys) because of the lack of QB consistency, lack of veteran leadership and an almost complete roster turn over. When you have that over your head 4 years is not enough, 1 more year (this year) and Gibbs would have us in the SB. Hopefully Zorn will take us there.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I simply meant 2 games, not in separate years. Wouldn't want anyone thinking we had 2 playoff seasons

My bad, didn't mean to jump out signifying and all. - ode to Dolemite

[sportscurmudgeon]

Someone said he doesn't care about wins and losses as long as the Skins are a hard-nosed team that plays as if it cares.

Excuse me but in the NFL the ONLY things that matter are wins and losses.

If the Spurrier teams at 5-11 went out and played hard and banged opponents around, would you have like to keep him here for three more seasons of 5-11? Not many other fans would like that.

One other minor point with the rant that says "Gibbs 2.0" is not allowed to be called a failure:


Those teams he had from 1980 - 1990 were assembled by someone other than himself. Someone else handed him the talent that eventually manifested itself as Hall of Fame players and "The Hogs". So, if you want to excuse "Gibbs 2.0" because he had weak players when he showed up, then you also have to acknowledge that for the vast majority of "Gibbs 1.0" he had great players that where handed to him on a platter.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

JG didn't have the luxury of giving his backup QB a few years to sit on the bench and learn like Rypien and Humphries, that's why he stuck with Brunnell because of his experience (eventhought he was over the hill) gave us the best chance to win. i still say that JG didn't live to the expectations (for some of you guys) because of the lack of QB consistency, lack of veteran leadership and an almost complete roster turn over. When you have that over your head 4 years is not enough, 1 more year (this year) and Gibbs would have us in the SB. Hopefully Zorn will take us there.

Well that's where he made the mistake cause in today's NFL, if you draft a guy real high and give up the ranch for him, you play him right away. Looking at Brunell at the end of 05 was enough for me to see that he wasn't a 16 game starter anymore. As someone else mentioned, Gibbs was probably fine Mon. through Sat. But on gameday I was expecting the old Gibbs. Remember the man who was the master at halftime adjustments?? Sorry but we never ever saw that in his 2nd go around. Just look at all the 2nd half blown leads. But hey, I'm certainly not knocking the man cause he did change the culture around here and we are on the right track.

[SkinDogg]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

Im a Gibbs fan, but his record speaks for itself.
1. He won less than 50% of his games in 4 years.
2. Won 1 of 3 playoff games, and you can chalk most of that up to the D.
3. He (the skins) spent a ton of money on players and coaches.
4. He couldnt drop Brunell, when he was hurting the team.
5. Couldnt put together a team that didnt have a bunch of motion penalties, false starts, and delay of games.

If this were any other coach, everyone would say that he was garbage. This is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and he didnt do much the second time around. But heck, he had a team that fought thier guts out.

That's the point - Joe Gibbs was NOT just any other coach. He was our coach; he's family and always will be. I agree with the sentiment of this thread in that JGII's success was not necessarily defined by his W-L record, but perhaps by the foundation he set, which I believe will redefine the Skin's W-L record in the future. And maybe not, but do we dare think of our team's legacy had he not returned?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SkinDogg

That's the point - Joe Gibbs was NOT just any other coach. He was our coach; he's family and always will be. I agree with the sentiment of this thread in that JGII's success was not necessarily defined by his W-L record, but perhaps by the foundation he set, which I believe will redefine the Skin's W-L record in the future. And maybe not, but do we dare think of our team's legacy had he not returned?

I agree with your statement. There's no question he left a solid team behind him on both sides of the ball. He made plenty of mistakes his second time around, but he absolutely strengthened the foundation of the Redskins. He backed Snyder off significantly, and finally football people are making the football positions. He also brought in a solid mix of good rookie draft picks and some good veteran leadership. His first priority after being re-hired was bringing in Gregg Williams and a good mix of other experienced coaches, which developed the solid team we now have.

Of course I envisioned more playoff glory than we experienced during his second run, but I certainly don't see his efforts as a failure either.

So sure, he didn't win another Super Bowl, but he made a few playoff runs, guided our team through the worst tragedy in franchise history, and left behind a team of solid players and coaches headed in a much better direction than before he returned.