Our next coach??

[SBXVII]

Here's the article about what Marty had to say....

D.C. Sports Bog - Schottenheimer on Cerrato

the thing that sticks out most:

"I've said for a long time, in my opinion the problem down there--obviously it starts at the top with Dan--but [the problem] is Cerrato," Schottenheimer said Thursday. "I don't particularly respect the guy. He and I had our issues when we were there. Basically what he said was, 'Marty, Dan may be listening to you during the preseason,' he says. 'But wait until I get up in the owner's box during the regular season, and then we'll see who Dan listens to.'

[pdr76]

We all know that Snyder wants Shanahan BUT what about the reports that Cerrato may be safe with Shanahan? I would rather blow this thing entirely up and get the right structure in place, even if that meant another 3 years of mediocrity. I have had the last 10 years of mediocrity with Snyder, I can wait another 3. This team is too stupid to realize the wrongs in giving a head coach complete control. Can someone name the last very successful team that had the coach and GM as the same person? I think time and time again it has been shown that that structure does not work. The main problem is if you dont fix the front office structure, you are looking at added time of mediocrity......say repeat the same mistakes, fire the coach in 3 season, then get it right but have to wait another few season for that to pay off. Frustrating? just a little.

[MTK]

I've gone back and forth on Zorn all year, but I'm starting to firm up my view. I think he needs to go.

Going back to the 2nd half of last year is record right now is 5-15. Chew on that for a minute.

The offense only showed improvement when Sherm Lewis was brought in and his playcalling duties were stripped. The guy has no real power or clout in the locker room, it's been pretty clear through his tenure here that Vinny is calling most of the shots and the players know that. Zorn wasn't even able to assemble his own staff.

I love that the team has played their hearts out these last few weeks, but I'm not so sure how much of that credit can really go to Zorn. The players know Zorn is on his way out. Guys are playing hard because they know it's evaluation time for the next staff that comes in, or they are trying to spice up the resume for another team.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

To follow the Martz idea, has anyone mentioned Dick Jauron?

I watched buffalo a few times during his tenure there & it seemed he really got a lot out of a talent challenged team. They always played hard & were tough to beat.

Well, I think Dick Jauron also struggled in Chicago. He's another guy who probably isn't seen at this moment as head coach material. Especially not in a major market like DC.

[MTK]

Jauron won't have a problem getting another coordinator job, but he's done at HC.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Also, has Dennis Green considered coming back to the sideline?

He's coaching in the UFL isn't he? He reportedly has no interest in leaving the west coast.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by pdr76

The front office in STL worked completely against each other (major infighting) during Martz's time. His head coaching record is outstanding and I was not his biggest fan but it is hard to argue with the results he produced. In each stop in Detroit and SF, his offense improved dramatically from the year prior to him.

If Lovie Smith stays in Chicago, I could see him helping his old friend out there as OC since Ron Turner is well, let's say not good.

I am just disgusted that this conversation even exists. I think Zorn has some faults but has shown signs of improvement given some of the garbage he was given by the front office. I still don't know what coach in their right mind would think the Redskins and the current front office structure is a great opportunity. Schottenheimer made some pretty good comments yesterday about Cerrato and it probably isn't a stretch to say more NFL people respect Marty than Cerrato but at least Snyder likes Cerrato. Right? Because that relationship has worked out so well for us. Right? Ha.

Yeah I remember Zygmunt and Martz had some major issues. I think Zygmunt may have been just as hated in St. Louis as VC here.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by pdr76

My very first post so I will try and not embarrass myself. In patrolling several boards and the topic of the next coach, there appears to be one name that continues to be missing.

While I think we can all agree that the front office is a complete farce and the general feeling is that Snyder wants a "name" coach, there seems to be a feeling that the name coaches are kind of saying "no thanks".....Cowher this week, Holmgren and the Hawks/Browns, Gruden and ESPN, etc, etc. The one successful coach that continues to be missing is Mike Martz. I lived in St. Louis when he was the OC and the head coach and the guy was crazy but an excellent coach that produced some very good teams. He turned in fairly successful stints as the OC in Detroit and San Francisco until Mike Singeltary decided on a different offense.

Martz clashed with the front office in STL because of the incompetence of some of the people there. Wilbon has stated several times that he believes Snyder will do one more hire before finally getting things right and getting the right front office structure in place. I personally would take the flier on Martz for his outstanding record as a head coach. Plus, I think he would put the screws to the front office and then finally, maybe, Snyder will realize his errors. Schottenheimer did it and he is the only coach, albeit for 1 season, that Snyder hired that had a .500 or better record with the Skins.

Nice initial post, keep it up!! I thought Martz would have been perfect in '08 when we were searching but purely from a football standpoint. He would be calling virtually the same offense we'd been running under Saunders, had success with undersized WR in the past, could have made Portis into more of a threat in the screen/passing game and could have developed Campbell to his strengths. Also, he had a strong relationship with Fletcher on the defensive side so he'd have credibility with the defensive players. I'd wonder how his ego would work with Snyder and Cerrato but on the field it would have been a great fit.

At this point however, I don't think that's a good move. We'd be changing offenses AGAIN, our personnel isn't suited to his style and the front office structure is still broken.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, I think Dick Jauron also struggled in Chicago. He's another guy who probably isn't seen at this moment as head coach material. Especially not in a major market like DC.

Talk about bad body language from a coach, he always looks like he just buried his best friend. I don't know if I've seen a smile ever cross his face or him get animated at anything.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by pdr76

The front office in STL worked completely against each other (major infighting) during Martz's time. His head coaching record is outstanding and I was not his biggest fan but it is hard to argue with the results he produced. In each stop in Detroit and SF, his offense improved dramatically from the year prior to him.

If Lovie Smith stays in Chicago, I could see him helping his old friend out there as OC since Ron Turner is well, let's say not good.

I am just disgusted that this conversation even exists. I think Zorn has some faults but has shown signs of improvement given some of the garbage he was given by the front office. I still don't know what coach in their right mind would think the Redskins and the current front office structure is a great opportunity. Schottenheimer made some pretty good comments yesterday about Cerrato and it probably isn't a stretch to say more NFL people respect Marty than Cerrato but at least Snyder likes Cerrato. Right? Because that relationship has worked out so well for us. Right? Ha.

There is no doubt Zorn got rooked. No doubt Zorn was not able to bring in everyone he wanted to help coach. However he was able to bring in a few coach's who could help him with the task. Not that that solves everything. Now having said that keep in mind that whatever he has tried to occomplish has failed here. You simply can't at the end of the season say as an owner "Oh I made a mistake so I'm going to allow Zorn to fire anyone he wants and bring in whoever he needs as coach's and try to get this thing right." That doesn't happen. No matter how much DS knows he did Zorn wrong, Zorn will be the scape goat in order to handle it right this time around or so DS can try to get one of the big names.

Plus I don't feel too sorry for Zorn. His play calling has sucked. His plays were bland. All that has been taken away from him and we look better. Our only problem right now is our 2 min. drill for which Zorn still has control. If he showed marked improvement in the 2 min. drill and Red Zone I would be more inclined to say maybe he should stay as a figure head and keep Sherm Lewis as OC and next year maybe with "consistancy" this team will progress, but I don't see it. Zorn has been a failed science project. It's time to move on.

[pdr76]

I have a feeling that no matter who the coach is, we will be watching another new offense. In the 10 years, oh how I love the continuity we see from this junk:

Norv's sort of running/downfield attack (which is what I prefer)
Marty's smashmouth
Spurriers whatever he ran
Gibbs outdated running/downfield attack (including the Saunders time)
Zorn's west coast.

One would think a smart front office would try to maintain some semblance of rationality. I am not the first to say it but square pegs, round holes.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Nice initial post, keep it up!! I thought Martz would have been perfect in '08 when we were searching but purely from a football standpoint. He would be calling virtually the same offense we'd been running under Saunders, had success with undersized WR in the past, could have made Portis into more of a threat in the screen/passing game and could have developed Campbell to his strengths. Also, he had a strong relationship with Fletcher on the defensive side so he'd have credibility with the defensive players. I'd wonder how his ego would work with Snyder and Cerrato but on the field it would have been a great fit.

At this point however, I don't think that's a good move. We'd be changing offenses AGAIN, our personnel isn't suited to his style and the front office structure is still broken.

To tell you the truth I think you have it backwards. I don't think the players have bought into this whole WCO scheme and are having trouble with the terminology. I think most are used to the Gibbs/Saunders terminology issue better and to be honest our whole OL is set up for that style of offense. For the WCO to work we need smaller faster more agile OL which we don't have. If we blow this thing up I can only hope that if the next HC comes in and is utilizing the WCO he realizes he needs to drastically pick up OL for this scheme to work. Shanahan will have his work cut out for him.

[pdr76]

I don't think it is hard to argue that no matter what offense will be run next year, the entire offensive line needs to be addressed. Fear not though, Cerrato and Dan are working on our next QB but since this isn't a thread on a QB (and I think we have obvious more pressing needs) I will not add to that. My biggest fear is that Cerrato and Dan see some offensive improvement and feel just another guy away from winning. I laugh.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

[/B]

To tell you the truth I think you have it backwards. I don't think the players have bought into this whole WCO scheme and are having trouble with the terminology. I think most are used to the Gibbs/Saunders terminology issue better and to be honest our whole OL is set up for that style of offense. For the WCO to work we need smaller faster more agile OL which we don't have. If we blow this thing up I can only hope that if the next HC comes in and is utilizing the WCO he realizes he needs to drastically pick up OL for this scheme to work. Shanahan will have his work cut out for him.

See if it's Shanahan I think the transition will be minimal. The offense he runs is also an offshoot of the Walsh WCO that Zorn & Lewis run via Holmgren. The players I'm concerned with are the WR group (Thomas, Kelly, Mitchell) and Davis because they've learned one offense and would have to reset after just starting to show they're getting comfortable. We're probably looking at a new QB, new RB and a new RT after this season so there will be some learning curve.

On our '10 projected (as I see it) OL there will only be two Gibbs/Saunders holdovers in Rabach and Dockery. Levi Jones came from Cincy and Mike Williams came from Buffalo. Unless we completely reset by letting them all go, there's not going to be a true WCO line for a couple of years.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

See if it's Shanahan I think the transition will be minimal. The offense he runs is also an offshoot of the Walsh WCO that Zorn & Lewis run via Holmgren. The players I'm concerned with are the WR group (Thomas, Kelly, Mitchell) and Davis because they've learned one offense and would have to reset after just starting to show they're getting comfortable. We're probably looking at a new QB, new RB and a new RT after this season so there will be some learning curve.

On our '10 projected (as I see it) OL there will only be two Gibbs/Saunders holdovers in Rabach and Dockery. Levi Jones came from Cincy and Mike Williams came from Buffalo. Unless we completely reset by letting them all go, there's not going to be a true WCO line for a couple of years.

Pain, i agree with everything you say there. Shanahan is not my first (or second, third, or forth) choice to be our next HC, but that is the main positive I see with him taking over. If we go with anything other than a WCO style offense, then all the progress we've seen our receivers (and even Campbell) have made over the past two years will be for nothing. With Shanahan, we have a high probabilty of being competetive sooner - although i think there's a "lower ceiling" with Shanahan than there would be if we just blew the whole thing up and started building from scratch.

And while the offense could greatly benefit from Shanahan, our defense would no doubt suffer. If we went with a smaller name HC, he would be more inclined to to keep our defense in tact. Shanahan's likely going to bring in entirely new coaching staffs on BOTH sides of the ball. Given the relative success of our defense, perhaps Shanahan could be convinced to just promote Jerry Gray to DC, but I wouldnt count on it.