All things Middle East related

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Giantone

They won't fight to save their families and their own lives or their Country but they will jump on a moving cargo Jet?

Do you understand how desperate they are to get the hell out of there? Fight the Taliban? Are you serious

[JackLord]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I want this to come out the right way. I wish no harm to the Afghans ,I feel for their plight and I am shocked at the photos coming out yet why are people mad now? We have been there for way over 20 years and the Army gave up and ran. We have suffered our own loss's and spent almost a trillion dollars and I ask when is enough enough? Two weeks ago no one was even thinking about this withdrawal and now it's the poor Afghans . A deal was stuck with the trump administration and Biden honor it for the safe guard for all had he not there would be more fighting . The Biden Administration screwed up the withdrawal but trump needs to keep his mouth shut ,it was his deal .

Well Jintsfan- that is a good post and completely correct imho.

But- yea there is always one of those- it is the bold that you and others here are downplaying.

Once again, both Trump and Biden wanted or want out of Afghanistan. And though one could justify remaining, most everyone is in agreement. So there is little to dispute about that.

It is the shambolic and stupid way this withdrawal has gone that upsets people and for good reason. Biden has ignored his intelligence sources and military.

He pulled troops out before- BEFORE- we had our civilians out. Not to mention Allied civilians and scores of Afghans who helped us and now will have a target on their backs.

Telling our people to shelter in place or to proceed to Kabul Airport past Taliban checkpoints on their own is rather callous. One hopes they are all in or near Kabul rather than Kandahar.

And Joe being Joe stated in that blustery certitude that is his trademark that this would not be like Saigon.

Well that was a bit of a whopper, no?

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by MTK

Do you understand how desperate they are to get the hell out of there? Fight the Taliban? Are you serious

20years and 350,000 troops trained and they all ran! What else are we to do?

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by JackLord

Well Jintsfan- that is a good post and completely correct imho.

But- yea there is always one of those- it is the bold that you and others here are downplaying.

Once again, both Trump and Biden wanted or want out of Afghanistan. And though one could justify remaining, most everyone is in agreement. So there is little to dispute about that.

It is the shambolic and stupid way this withdrawal has gone that upsets people and for good reason. Biden has ignored his intelligence sources and military.

He pulled troops out before- BEFORE- we had our civilians out. Not to mention Allied civilians and scores of Afghans who helped us and now will have a target on their backs.

Telling our people to shelter in place or to proceed to Kabul Airport past Taliban checkpoints on their own is rather callous. One hopes they are all in or near Kabul rather than Kandahar.

And Joe being Joe stated in that blustery certitude that is his trademark that this would not be like Saigon.

Well that was a bit of a whopper, no?

Where are the Military leaders in all this?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Giantone

20years and 350,000 troops trained and they all ran! What else are we to do?

I was merely pointing out that it's pretty damn sad when clinging to the side of a C17 sounds like your best option for the day.

[JackLord]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Where are the Military leaders in all this?

Being ignored by the President, who it happens, is also the Commander in Chief.

Dust off that high school civics textbook, Jintsfan.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by JackLord

.....

And Joe being Joe stated in that blustery certitude that is his trademark that this would not be like Saigon.

Well that was a bit of a whopper, no?

He was horribly wrong and made a terrible decision (seriously damaging US interests and staining his legacy - am pretty sure he knows this) but that doesn't make this a lie imo - he was just wrong (foolish?).

[JackLord]

Originally Posted by nonniey

He was horribly wrong and made a terrible decision (seriously damaging US interests and staining his legacy - am pretty sure he knows this) but that doesn't make this a lie imo - he was just wrong (foolish?).

The Saigon statement was not a lie. It was as you describe. But it was also an example of Biden's foolish bravado that is all to familiar to anyone who has paid even scant attention to him over the years.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by JackLord

The Saigon statement was not a lie. It was as you describe. But it was also an example of Biden's foolish bravado that is all to familiar to anyone who has paid even scant attention to him over the years.

Yep - God I hope I'm not forced to vote for him again.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I just wish Trump would STFU and go away. He makes my skin crawl.

Problem is he has given others in the party a roadmap. Be a cunt and my base will vote for you. The Jim Jordans of the world now just pander to the dregs of society. Trump has not only ruined the Republican party but created a party of white trash that was sick of hiding under their slimy rocks. Trump could die but his monster will not only live on but feel empowered and legitimate. It is an awful scenario.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I want this to come out the right way. I wish no harm to the Afghans ,I feel for their plight and I am shocked at the photos coming out yet why are people mad now? We have been there for way over 20 years and the Army gave up and ran. We have suffered our own loss's and spent almost a trillion dollars and I ask when is enough enough? Two weeks ago no one was even thinking about this withdrawal and now it's the poor Afghans . A deal was stuck with the trump administration and Biden honor it for the safe guard for all had he not there would be more fighting . The Biden Administration screwed up the withdrawal but trump needs to keep his mouth shut ,it was his deal .

60,000 afghans died fighting the Taliban G-1. I wouldn’t say they won’t fight. But like us, and other countries have realized there is no stopping the warlords (who are now posing as a government), and Trump played a huge part in making them feel legitimate and a part of things just like he did the white trash in our own country.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by nonniey

He was horribly wrong and made a terrible decision (seriously damaging US interests and staining his legacy - am pretty sure he knows this) but that doesn't make this a lie imo - he was just wrong (foolish?).

He is addressing the situation at least which is more than Trump would have done. Your vote wasn’t a total throw away. If Trump had won, not only would he have done the same thing but he would now be doing nothing other than saying America first fuck Afghanistan.

[SunnySide]

read an op-ed from Condelezza Rice (sp?) and she mentioned the South Korea approach.

Condense our presence to kabul and surrounding area (S Korea) then maintain a US military presence there, allow us to keep that strategically located air base open and basically keep 25k plus troops there indefinitely like we do in S Korea. That way we have a hub strategically right in the middle of the ME, have a strong ally in Afghanistan, would allow the women and children in Kabul and surrounding area a chance at freedom and give them time to strengthen their democracy. She said it took s korea longer than 20 years to figure out their democracy and they were more advanced than afghanistan.

We were never going to win over the rural areas.

Of course, this is hindsight and would require us to take this approach 20 years ago .. when the Condelleza Rice's of the world were running the show.

[Chico23231]

Complete and utter disaster that Joe Biden created

Enough of the excuse making. Enough.

There are around what 10k Americans and 50-100k Afghanistan allies completely trapped

Enough with the excuses. This is Biden’a disaster and only his

Clowns defend him at this point

Let’s focus on the Americans right now. I think Biden should coalition build and account for all nations with people there and move to bring all options on.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

read an op-ed from Condelezza Rice (sp?) and she mentioned the South Korea approach.

Condense our presence to kabul and surrounding area (S Korea) then maintain a US military presence there, allow us to keep that strategically located air base open and basically keep 25k plus troops there indefinitely like we do in S Korea. That way we have a hub strategically right in the middle of the ME, have a strong ally in Afghanistan, would allow the women and children in Kabul and surrounding area a chance at freedom and give them time to strengthen their democracy. She said it took s korea longer than 20 years to figure out their democracy and they were more advanced than afghanistan.

We were never going to win over the rural areas.

Of course, this is hindsight and would require us to take this approach 20 years ago .. when the Condelleza Rice's of the world were running the show.

We were essentially doing that approach (with fewer troops) since the Obama administration. Trump and Biden decided to shit-can that strategy.