Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I really don't understand the criticism of Orakpo at all. Not even a little bit. There are not many guys in the league who the offense has to scheme around. Orakpo changes protection schemes.

And why are people assuming he'd like to be a full time pass rusher? He's gotten better in space, I never played football but I would imagine the game is more fun and rewarding when your versatility is put to use.

Good 3-4 outside linebackers are worth a ton of money. It's like a lockdown corner or a stud LT, it's just an expensive position. And there's a reason for that, it's because if you don't have one you're already behind the 8-ball from the jump.

You won't find another player on the free agent market who can make the same impact, and if you want to draft one you need to use a top 15 pick. $10M a season is his floor and he's worth every penny.

Exactly.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I really don't understand the criticism of Orakpo at all. Not even a little bit. There are not many guys in the league who the offense has to scheme around. Orakpo changes protection schemes.

And why are people assuming he'd like to be a full time pass rusher? He's gotten better in space, I never played football but I would imagine the game is more fun and rewarding when your versatility is put to use.

Good 3-4 outside linebackers are worth a ton of money. It's like a lockdown corner or a stud LT, it's just an expensive position. And there's a reason for that, it's because if you don't have one you're already behind the 8-ball from the jump.

You won't find another player on the free agent market who can make the same impact, and if you want to draft one you need to use a top 15 pick. $10M a season is his floor and he's worth every penny.

Sir, I am gonna need you to stop making sense. Take that sense-making witchery back where it came from.

[diehardskin2982]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I really don't understand the criticism of Orakpo at all. Not even a little bit. There are not many guys in the league who the offense has to scheme around. Orakpo changes protection schemes.

And why are people assuming he'd like to be a full time pass rusher? He's gotten better in space, I never played football but I would imagine the game is more fun and rewarding when your versatility is put to use.

Good 3-4 outside linebackers are worth a ton of money. It's like a lockdown corner or a stud LT, it's just an expensive position. And there's a reason for that, it's because if you don't have one you're already behind the 8-ball from the jump.

You won't find another player on the free agent market who can make the same impact, and if you want to draft one you need to use a top 15 pick. $10M a season is his floor and he's worth every penny.

Not so fast my friend...

Rack is not even the best linebacker on this team. I took a look on the NFL stats Lab and compared him first to the linebackers on our team. Brian only had 10 sacks, 1 Interception, 0 FF and 60 tackles. Kerrigan had 9 sacks, 0 ints, 4 forced fumbles, and 66 tackles in a year where Kerrigan admitted that he was hurt.

Ryan Kerrigan to have minor surgery; talks 4-3 - ESPN

Now let's compare Rack to the best player at his position this year... Robert Quinn had 19 sacks 7 Forced Fumbles and 57 Tackles. The second best ranked free agent at the same position is Jason Worilds. He had 64 tackles, 8 sacks and 2 FF. That is not much of a drop off, also Jason is two years younger.

We could also target Michael Johnson who excelled at OLB in a 3-4 system in 2012.

All this to say that we don't need to overpay Brian Orakpo. I would argue that Perry Riley is a more important sign than Rack. Riley is our leading tackler and averaged 79.8 tackles over his four year span on the team.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Not so fast my friend...

Rack is not even the best linebacker on this team. I took a look on the NFL stats Lab and compared him first to the linebackers on our team. Brian only had 10 sacks, 1 Interception, 0 FF and 60 tackles. Kerrigan had 9 sacks, 0 ints, 4 forced fumbles, and 66 tackles in a year where Kerrigan admitted that he was hurt.

Ryan Kerrigan to have minor surgery; talks 4-3 - ESPN

Now let's compare Rack to the best player at his position this year... Robert Quinn had 19 sacks 7 Forced Fumbles and 57 Tackles. The second best ranked free agent at the same position is Jason Worilds. He had 64 tackles, 8 sacks and 2 FF. That is not much of a drop off, also Jason is two years younger.

We could also target Michael Johnson who excelled at OLB in a 3-4 system in 2012.

All this to say that we don't need to overpay Brian Orakpo. I would argue that Perry Riley is a more important sign than Rack. Riley is our leading tackler and averaged 79.8 tackles over his four year span on the team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO93Edk7xtw

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Not so fast my friend...

Rack is not even the best linebacker on this team. I took a look on the NFL stats Lab and compared him first to the linebackers on our team. Brian only had 10 sacks, 1 Interception, 0 FF and 60 tackles. Kerrigan had 9 sacks, 0 ints, 4 forced fumbles, and 66 tackles in a year where Kerrigan admitted that he was hurt.

Ryan Kerrigan to have minor surgery; talks 4-3 - ESPN

Now let's compare Rack to the best player at his position this year... Robert Quinn had 19 sacks 7 Forced Fumbles and 57 Tackles. The second best ranked free agent at the same position is Jason Worilds. He had 64 tackles, 8 sacks and 2 FF. That is not much of a drop off, also Jason is two years younger.

We could also target Michael Johnson who excelled at OLB in a 3-4 system in 2012.

All this to say that we don't need to overpay Brian Orakpo. I would argue that Perry Riley is a more important sign than Rack. Riley is our leading tackler and averaged 79.8 tackles over his four year span on the team.

Ugh. Educate yourself please. Robert Quinn is a completely invalid comparison, he's a 4-3 DE. Meaning he rushes the passer on every down. Orakpo is a 3-4 LB, meaning sometimes he backs off in coverage. He put up 10 sacks despite not rushing every down.

Worilds is a fine comparison to make, he actually plays the same position as Orakpo. But you have to remember he lines up next to Lawrence Timmons and right behind Brett Keisel, both of those guys are very active and take a lot of pressure off Worilds. In other words, if you put Orakpo on the Steelers in place of Worilds, and put Worilds on the Redskins in place of Orakpo, the spread in sack numbers would be much larger than 8 vs 10.

Orakpo on the Steelers would still be the guy defenses would have to scheme around, and consequently the whole front seven would improve. It wouldn't look too different from when James Harrison was in his prime. Worilds is OK but nobody fears him.

[skinsfanthru&thru]

Jay Gruden's deal with Redskins includes rare five guaranteed years - CBSSports.com

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

Jay Gruden's deal with Redskins includes rare five guaranteed years - CBSSports.com

Poor thinking by JLC. Sure it's a 5-year guarantee but at only $4M per season I still wouldn't view it as a major commitment to Gruden. Gives him security but I'll bet this doesn't even place him in the top half of head coaching salaries per season.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

Jay Gruden's deal with Redskins includes rare five guaranteed years - CBSSports.com

Why are we always doing things differently from other teams? For 20 years we've tried to do things our own unique way...and for 20 years we've been losers. Maybe it's time to do things like other teams, such as giving a "normal" contract to a first-time HC.

Oh well.

[diehardskin2982]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Ugh. Educate yourself please...

Ok, Robert Quinn was the wrong comparison.
The problem with you Schneed is you can't make a comment to another member without being disrespectful. At the end of the day Orakpo is not Elite. He does not deserve a Elite paying contract. The team was 3-13 and his impact didn't win us any more games than last year, regardless of how much you try to pacify him. It shouldn't matter who is around him, his job is to produce. IMO he doesn't have secondary rush moves than a bull rush. I think he can grow with the new coaching staff. But, he needs to do a mutually beneficial contract.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Ok, Robert Quinn was the wrong comparison.
The problem with you Schneed is you can't make a comment to another member without being disrespectful. At the end of the day Orakpo is not Elite. He does not deserve a Elite paying contract. The team was 3-13 and his impact didn't win us any more games than last year, regardless of how much you try to pacify him. It shouldn't matter who is around him, his job is to produce. IMO he doesn't have secondary rush moves than a bull rush. I think he can grow with the new coaching staff. But, he needs to do a mutually beneficial contract.

Sorry if I offended, but we get our fair share of drivel on this board (still much less than other boards). You largely know your stuff but whenever someone puts out an inaccuracy the board should correct it, or we can go the way of ExtremeSkins pretty quick.

I agree Orakpo is not in the very top echelon. But is $10M a year an elite salary in 2014? Clay Matthews got that much but that was several years ago. Orakpo's a half step below Clay, but inflation's a bitch. Combine that fact with our dire need at that position (we'd be F'd without Orakpo in our front 7), and I think you have to pony up the $10 or $11M and feel fine about it.

That said I hope he takes $8 or $9M.

Edit: One more thing. Laying the 3-13 record at Orakpo's feet is pretty crazy. Pass rushers and the secondary go hand in hand, they make each other look better. Without a secondary the QB gets the ball out too fast for a pass rusher to make a huge impact. And without a pass rusher a good secondary can't cover any WR for 5 seconds. He had 10 sacks despite QBs being able to shred the secondary pretty consistently. The 3-13 record is not on him at all, it's a team sport and you need everyone pulling their weight. A weak link in the chain means the whole thing breaks. But that doesn't mean you point the finger at the one link that held up.

[MTK]

This thread has definitely jumped the shark.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Did they also account for the all the attention Orapko demanded to help with Kerrigan's stats?

[diehardskin2982]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Did they also account for the all the attention Orapko demanded to help with Kerrigan's stats?

That could be a valid argument if Kerrigan didn't have the same sack totals in 2012 without Rack due to injury. Ryan had less tackles but Fletcher was a better player in 2012 as well.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Sacks aren't the be-all, end-all. While I DO agree that signing Riley is important, I still feel like getting Rak back is more important. It would be yet another hole to fill with either a draft pick OR another high priced FA.

[FRPLG]

Rak is going to get a lot of play on the market. There's a reason.