Pro Bowl Bound - Samuels, Moss

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I wasn't trying to change anyone's view, but if it changed yours that's great!

That's about as in depth as you have to get with Vick.

He's overrated, simple as that.

His numbers are garbage for a QB. So he wins when he's in the lineup... yeah that's great. Are you telling me Dallas or Washington would have won the same amount of games if you took away Bledsoe and Brunell?

He's a great athlete, but from a pure QB standpoint his name carries him. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest most of the time so it's not surprising Vick is in, I just don't think it's justified based on his play.

Tom Brady's stats don't really jump off the page. He's never thrown more than 28 TDs and his next closest total is 23. Would you argue that he's overrated?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

He's still overrated.

You're overrrated.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by jdlea

You're overrrated.

Your momma's overrated.

[ST21]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Your momma's overrated.

AND I'M CHILDISH.......

[MTK]

Originally Posted by jdlea

You're overrrated.

As overrated as I am Vick still tops the list.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jdlea

How come last week I was wrong for judging people based on stats, which by the way, included wins, but this week all people want to do is use stats to explain why Vick is overrated.

First of all, the Falcons are one of the worst teams in the league without Michael Vick on the field. He may not be a great passer, but he changes games. You can't honestly tell me that you think coaches lose sleep over Mark Brunell or Drew Bledsoe. That's why Vick gets votes. When coaches and players go up against Mike Vick they have to come up with ways to stop him. If I were coming up with a gameplan against the Skins or Boys I would try to make Brunell or Bledsoe beat me.

Second, Vick has no one but Crumpler and Dunn on offense. Don't give me that "he doesn't throw to recievers" nonsense. He doesn't throw to them because they're garbage. He has one legit target. The offense is him and Dunn. That's it.

Vick is the MVP of his team every single season. Without him, we've seen what happens to the Falcons. Michael Vick changes games and people respect what he can do way more than Brunell or Bledsoe.

Vick also has Duckett (underrated short-yardage back in my opinion). And what does Brunell have besides Portis, Moss and Cooley. Very few teams have more than two or three targets anyway.

I don't deny the difference that Vick can make but if he was such an MVP then he wouldn't have been so lousy these last couple of weeks in key games (both losses) to the Panthers and Bears.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Vick also has Duckett (underrated short-yardage back in my opinion). And what does Brunell have besides Portis, Moss and Cooley. Very few teams have more than two or three targets anyway.

I don't deny the difference that Vick can make but if he was such an MVP then he wouldn't have been so lousy these last couple of weeks in key games (both losses) to the Panthers and Bears.

Duckett isn't any better than Zack Crockett. If you wanna put Duckett out there, you had better thrown in Betts and Sellers and David Patten, who was very good coming in.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jdlea

Duckett isn't any better than Zack Crockett. If you wanna put Duckett out there, you had better thrown in Betts and Sellers and David Patten, who was very good coming in.

Fair enough....now as far as comparing Tom Brady to Vick. Brady's passing numbers are way better than Vick's. Brady has like a 2:1 TD to INT ratio. For every TD Vick throws he throws an INT.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Fair enough....now as far as comparing Tom Brady to Vick. Brady's passing numbers are way better than Vick's. Brady has like a 2:1 TD to INT ratio. For every TD Vick throws he throws an INT.

I wasn't trying to compare Brady to Vick. He's a far superior passer, I'm just saying that when you compare Brady to the league then his stats don't jump off the page. All he does is win which is why everyone loves him. Vick does a lot of winning too, but people still hate, I just don't get it.

That's not to put Vick's playoff appearances on par with Tom Brady's, just pointing out that it's a pretty similar situation.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I don't deny the difference that Vick can make but if he was such an MVP then he wouldn't have been so lousy these last couple of weeks in key games (both losses) to the Panthers and Bears.

The Panthers and Bears are divison leading playoff teams. Brunell lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Cardinals. Bledsoe also lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Niners.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

The Panthers and Bears are divison leading playoff teams. Brunell lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Cardinals. Bledsoe also lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Niners.

I realize that. Brunell also has won three in a row, with the playoffs on the line. Though I understand what you're saying about the quality of the opponent.

What I'm saying though is that if the argument is going to be made that the Falcons are a much better team when Vick is in and they win with him and that's a big reason why he's in the Pro Bowl, then you have to factor in that when it's mattered recently against top teams they haven't won. And Vick can't be absolved of blame in those losses. So what does it matter that they're better with him if they lose anyway.?

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I realize that. Brunell also has won three in a row, with the playoffs on the line. Though I understand what you're saying about the quality of the opponent.

What I'm saying though is that if the argument is going to be made that the Falcons are a much better team when Vick is in and they win with him and that's a big reason why he's in the Pro Bowl, then you have to factor in that when it's mattered recently against top teams they haven't won. And Vick can't be absolved of blame in those losses. So what does it matter that they're better with him if they lose anyway.?

What if the Skins lose this weekend? Does that mean that Mark Brunell has no business in the Pro Bowl because that could cost his team the playoff spot? Brunell doesn't scare anybody. He throws to 2 people on the team and that's because he has a reciever who is very good. He'd be worse than Vick if he were a Falcon. The Falcons have Vick, Crumpler, Dunn, Hall and Coleman who can play. That's pretty much it. That team is garbage. Mike Vick is the only reason they're even in a playoff hunt.

[ST21]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

The Panthers and Bears are divison leading playoff teams. Brunell lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Cardinals. Bledsoe also lost to the Raiders, and tried his best to lose to the Niners.

Good Ass point.....and everyone think Brunell has been great, he has, but only because Santana Moss has put him in that situation........

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by wewhite3

Good Ass point.....and everyone think Brunell has been great, he has, but only because Santana Moss has put him in that situation........

I would have to give both of them credit for both of their success. One could not have done it without the other. Credit should go 50/50.

[MTK]

Hey boys fans you listening?

Safeties
Who they picked: AFC – John Lynch, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders; NFC – Mike Brown, Darren Sharper and Roy Williams.

Who they forgot: Sean Taylor – Boy, I must seem like a Redskins fan. But the kid has been far more of an impact player than Williams, who’s guilty of being subpar in coverage and known better for his horse-collar (or, shirt-collar) tackles. Taylor is so
key to Gregg Williams’ man-free defenses, able to cover the slot receivers, blanket tight ends or sit back in coverage as a center fielder.