Switch to 3-4 Defense a Failure

[Ruhskins]

I think it is safe today we have a lot of untalented players on defense that are not the best fit for the 3-4.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think it is safe today we have a lot of untalented players on defense that are not the best fit for the 3-4.

I think we do not have players for either a 3-4 or a 4-3, have to get the right coach and players. Right now we have neither. Our d-line is playing like garbage, our linebackers can't cover tight ends or stop the run, and of course the secondary is the secondary. I personally prefer the 3-4, I think Orakpo and Kerrigan can be good 3-4 OLB's, and Carriker is a good DE, not a good DT in a 4-3 though (proved in St. Louis he could not play the position), so we need to change the type of 3-4 we run and change the coaching staff. and obviously draft a lot of new players. Point is it does not matter which scheme we run cause we do not have the players for either.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by donofriose

I think we do not have players for either a 3-4 or a 4-3, have to get the right coach and players. Right now we have neither. Our d-line is playing like garbage, our linebackers can't cover tight ends or stop the run, and of course the secondary is the secondary. I personally prefer the 3-4, I think Orakpo and Kerrigan can be good 3-4 OLB's, and Carriker is a good DE, not a good DT in a 4-3 though (proved in St. Louis he could not play the position), so we need to change the type of 3-4 we run and change the coaching staff. and obviously draft a lot of new players. Point is it does not matter which scheme we run cause we do not have the players for either.

Boom! Preach it

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

I think we do not have players for either a 3-4 or a 4-3, have to get the right coach and players. Right now we have neither. Our d-line is playing like garbage, our linebackers can't cover tight ends or stop the run, and of course the secondary is the secondary. I personally prefer the 3-4, I think Orakpo and Kerrigan can be good 3-4 OLB's, and Carriker is a good DE, not a good DT in a 4-3 though (proved in St. Louis he could not play the position), so we need to change the type of 3-4 we run and change the coaching staff. and obviously draft a lot of new players. Point is it does not matter which scheme we run cause we do not have the players for either.

Scheme matters when you don't have the right players. This team decided to make a major in switch on defense, yet they f'ed up by not getting the right players and a good DC that can work in the transition. Honestly, I don't care what defensive scheme they use, just get the right players period. Get a true 3-4 NT, get some ILBs that can cover TEs, and fix the safety debacle.

I know this defense has lacked talent in many areas. But things are worst when you don't have talent, you try to fit players in the wrong scheme, and we don't have a coach that can work with these deficiencies. So unless you're going to have Bill Bellichick or Wade Phillips coach our defensive unit, scheme matters and having the right players for the right scheme matters as well.

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Scheme matters when you don't have the right players. This team decided to make a major in switch on defense, yet they f'ed up by not getting the right players and a good DC that can work in the transition. Honestly, I don't care what defensive scheme they use, just get the right players period. Get a true 3-4 NT, get some ILBs that can cover TEs, and fix the safety debacle.

I know this defense has lacked talent in many areas. But things are worst when you don't have talent, you try to fit players in the wrong scheme, and we don't have a coach that can work with these deficiencies. So unless you're going to have Bill Bellichick or Wade Phillips coach our defensive unit, scheme matters and having the right players for the right scheme matters as well.

Bellichick has proven he cannot coach defenses anymore. They are not forcing players to play out of scheme. Carriker is a good 3-4 end. Cofield is an average NT, could we upgrade yes we could but he is not the biggest problem right now. Jenkins has not proven anything but he is a prototypical 3-4 end. Orakpo and Kerrigan are good 3-4 outside linebackers. I agree we need to upgrade the 3-4 ILBs but our linebackers would not be good if we played a 4-3 or a 3-4. It is not like these players are out of position. The secondary is obviously terrible. We don't have players that would fit well in a 4-3 or a 3-4, because the truth is those players are just not good.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by donofriose

Bellichick has proven he cannot coach defenses anymore. They are not forcing players to play out of scheme. Carriker is a good 3-4 end. Cofield is an average NT, could we upgrade yes we could but he is not the biggest problem right now. Jenkins has not proven anything but he is a prototypical 3-4 end. Orakpo and Kerrigan are good 3-4 outside linebackers. I agree we need to upgrade the 3-4 ILBs but our linebackers would not be good if we played a 4-3 or a 3-4. It is not like these players are out of position. The secondary is obviously terrible. We don't have players that would fit well in a 4-3 or a 3-4, because the truth is those players are just not good.

I don't think that is the biggest problem either, but it is a problem I am puzzled as to why we never found a more suitable player for that position. I think we have some young guys that would fit better at that position (Neild, Baker), but I don't think Cofield belongs in that spot (personally I feel he'd be a much better DE in our D).

[MTK]

Improve talent first and foremost (especially in the secondary) and everything else will take care of itself. The 3-4 vs the 4-3 talk is so overblown its unbelievable. Amazing how we heard very little of this debate last year when the D was actually decent.

[Bishop Hammer]

Yeah. Talent can overcome a lot of shortcomings. Problem is Shanny has no idea what qualifies as talent on the defensive side of the ball.

And, judging from his first two seasons, he barly knows it on the offensive side.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by Bishop Hammer

Yeah. Talent can overcome a lot of shortcomings. Problem is Shanny has no idea what qualifies as talent on the defensive side of the ball.

And, judging from his first two seasons, he barly knows it on the offensive side.

I agree 100% and for this reason Bruce Allen should be drafting the players, looking for key free agents, and making the trades instead of Mike Shanahan. Allen is the GM. Shanahan is the head coach. The GM should do what GMs do and the head coach should only be focusing on directing the players.

[Ruhskins]

I honestly don't care what defense they run, just get the right damn players for whatever scheme they want to run and a better defensive coordinator.