Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Winning games and Super Bowls cure everything. I'm sure if Irvin was on a losing team, we would have heard some issues. I see what you say about TO, but his performance on the field is HOF worthy. They don't let players into the HOF just because they were "nice guys".

The funny thing is that you have a guy like Art Monk, who had the numbers, but probably wasn't voted into the HOF because he didn't talk to the media.

And that's why people in the media shouldn't vote. The people voting should be made up of former players and coaches. If that was the case Monk would've got in asap. Sports writers (like Peter King) have no business voting on the HOF. I'll never forget Peter King saying Danny Weurfel would be the next Kurt Warner. What an idiot.

[Jontrem]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

He's the one of the few receivers I can think of that almost single handily (or as close to single handily one can be in football) won his team a Super Bowl, and anyone knows that knows me knows thats about the highest compliment I can give a wideout.

Damn right he's a first ballot hall of famer.

Right now T.O is probably the second best receiver of all time. However I think if Fitz can get a QB one day he'll be passed by Larry. Andre Johnson will also probably surpass T.O one day. No one will ever pass Jerry.

Can anyone imagine how celebrated he would be if it wasn't for all the antics and me first attitude? He has an amazing work ethic and unlike many receivers he's willing to go over the middle, never got in trouble with the law either. Which all to often gets overshadowed by fights with teammates, feuds with QB's/coaches, and overall being a bad teammate.

Not sure if I am misunderstanding you but TO never won a superbowl that I can think of. Did you mean he did so much to get them to a superbowl?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well some people that know a hell of a lot more football than you and I believe the HOF should focus on stats; and believe TO is a HOF'er. I'm just going by what they are saying.

Once again, I agree with some of the things that you are saying, but it is hard to ignore his numbers and how his performance on the field impacted the play of those teams. The HOF voters will make him sweat a year, but he will eventually get in.

Understood, but that's unfortunate IMO, even though I love stats. Stats just do a poor job of presenting all player contributions in a complex game like football. I actually don't disagree w/your prediction that he gets in, I just think it's a sad statement for the hall. Ultimately, I think TO was more about himself than he was about winning, and as I've stated, history backs that up. He even went to teams that were winning (philly, dallas) & still screwed things up.

If stats are to be the end all be all, all stats will have to be considered. So factor in TO's drops. To his credit he could block, don't think any stats can show that though.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Jontrem

Not sure if I am misunderstanding you but TO never won a superbowl that I can think of. Did you mean he did so much to get them to a superbowl?

He said almost won them a SB.

[firstdown]

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;808940]He's the one of the few receivers I can think of that almost single handily (or as close to single handily one can be in football) won his team a Super Bowl, and anyone knows that knows me knows thats about the highest compliment I can give a wideout.

Damn right he's a first ballot hall of famer.

Right now T.O is probably the second best receiver of all time. However I think if Fitz can get a QB one day he'll be passed by Larry. Andre Johnson will also probably surpass T.O one day. No one will ever pass Jerry.

Can anyone imagine how celebrated he would be if it wasn't for all the antics and me first attitude? He has an amazing work ethic and unlike many receivers he's willing to go over the middle, never got in trouble with the law either. Which all to often gets overshadowed by fights with teammates, feuds with QB's/coaches, and overall being a bad teammate.[/QUOTE

When did TO win a SB?

[hooskins]

first doesnt read well. he said almost. and if you are implying winning a superbowl is a criteria for the HOF, then they really made a big mistake enrolling marino.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

He said almost won them a SB.

That's not how I read it.

"few receivers I can think of that almost single handily (or as close to single handily one can be in football) won his team a Super Bowl"

Sounds like he was saying that TO almost won the game single handily like they won the SB.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I think yours is debatable at best. Did TO help them get there - yes. But TO was hurt all through the playoffs & they won w/out him. So that has to be considered.

The 2nd point - "haven't been back since he left" actually reinforces my point. If TO could've kept his mouth shut & been a good teammate, that team might've been able to come back strong the next year. What happened after that was him tearing the team apart to the point that Philly got rid of him while he was still in his prime.

And that was a bad thing? LOL

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Leader In Sports

Was Art Monk a first ballot guy? While he should have been, sadly, the answer is no.

More than the numbers play into the HOF voting. If I was picking a team of rookies with a crystal ball, I certainly would take Art Monk way head of T.O.

I second that and for that matter, I would take Monk over Rice any day.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

He said almost won them a SB.

On a broken leg!

That's when I began to respect him...even though I was rooting for his team to lose that game.

[CultBrennan59]

No he shouldn't, Cris Carters IMO was better and less of a headcase as Owens (voters will take that into account when voting for him) and he still hasn't gotten in.

[Chico23231]

Can be easily argued TO is the 2nd greatest WR after Rice ever. Me, I prefer to give that title to Randy Moss, NO ONE was as dominating at WR in their prime IMO. Moss is the greatest deep ball reciever ever by an enormous margin.

Back to the question, TO is a first ballot HOF NO question. Go ahead and a give him biggest Douchebag title as well though.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Again, I don't think the comparison is valid. Let's distinguish between off the field or what I would call personal issues, versus behavior that is related to job performance. I'm not even considering personal behavior in this debate, I think the hall has in recent past not considered that too much. Just in terms of performance related to your teams goals, Irvin was so much greater than TO.

Michael Irvin was a winner. Although he could be a pain for his qb & OC, it was never to the point that dallas wanted to get rid of him. In the end, teams couldn't count on TO. Skip Bayless called it best - TO = "TEam obliterator."

so by your logic, if TO had won at least 1 super bowl all would be forgotten, and he gets in easily? and by you quoting that idiot Bayless, your losing any credibilty in this arguement. i cant stand Owens, but your damn right he is hall of fame worthy. contrary to you, it should be all about the stats

[freddyg12]

Let me pose a question:

Would you want TO in his prime on your team, knowing that he will cause major problems at some point?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I second that and for that matter, I would take Monk over Rice any day.

Over Rice? I love Monk but let's come back down to reality.