Is it finally time to rebuild??

[irish]

What exactly is rebuilding and how long is it supposed to take? The idea of a multi-year rebuilding process just doesnt fly in today's win now NFL. The problem is that while the Skins are rebuilding everyone else is working on getting better also so they are trying to hit a moving target. The Skins are so far behind they might never really catch up. The thing that worries me is that the Skins are the new Detroit, and we all know how long Detroit has been rebuilding, re-organizing, or whatever one want to call it.

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by Daseal

We have NOT tried to rebuild yet. A lot of people equate losing to rebuilding. Just because we suck doesn’t mean we’re rebuilding. We’re still giving up draft picks for 34 year old players. That is not rebuilding – that’s saying we want to win now. If you want to pick up some veteran FA’s. Fine. If you are trading for them, sacrificing young future players for the team, you’re still trying to win.
I’m ready to break the core of this team apart. See what we can get some value for, turn to the younger players. Start building a new attitude in DC. Not saying trade away everyone. But keep age in mind. Anyone over the age of 27/28 should be expendable, for the right price.

This is exactly what I meant. Sure, every year every team tries to get younger. BUT rebuilding means that you (1) keep your draft picks, and (2) trade away older core great players to get more picks or younger players. Just like NE trading Randy Moss - good player but the 3rd round pick is more valuable to the team in the long-term. Brilliant.

For us, it'd be any of these guys:
- Cooley
- S.Moss
- C. Rogers
- A.Carter

These are great players but -- how would they help us in the next 3 years? They'd all be older than 31-32 by then, and past their primes. Better to have a younger player that can be around for 10 years.

That is what I meant about rebuilding. Again, I'm not sure we're going to do it. If we get lucky with picks and trades, we can put together a good team each year. But rebuilding has the potential to make a great team for a decade, like NE/Ravens/etc.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I guess someone needs to slap a big sign on the front of Redskins Park that says we are rebuilding to make everyone happy.

There was only so much rebuilding that could be done last year with limited picks and a limited FA pool. That said they still turned over 1/3 of the roster and the changes next year should only continue.

Matty:

You are absolutely right! The only way to rebuild more quickly is to have stockpiled draft picks - - like the Bucs did - - and then to spend the time and $$$ on the scouting department to get the draft right - - which the Skins have never done since the Bobby Beathard days.


How many picks do the Skins have next year? I believe the Pats have 11...

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Matty:

You are absolutely right! The only way to rebuild more quickly is to have stockpiled draft picks - - like the Bucs did - - and then to spend the time and $$$ on the scouting department to get the draft right - - which the Skins have never done since the Bobby Beathard days.


How many picks do the Skins have next year? I believe the Pats have 11...

Bobby Beathard's Redskins drafted a lot of duds in the mid to late rounds. A lot. Not to mention regularly traded out of the first round. But he did do a good job of putting the team in a position on draft day to afford to make countless mistakes. We haven't really put ourselves in that position recently.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Trading draft picks for older players (over 30) has happened much much much less frequently than we fans seem to want to think it has. Aside from McNabb, how many times have we done that in recent years? I'm sure there have been a couple other times, but I really can't think of them

The FO traded picks for aging Mark Brunell and Pete Kendall, both of whom may have been released, where the Skins could have then picked them up for nothing. Draft picks were also involved in deals to acquire Portis, Duckett, Lloyd, and Jason Taylor, in addition to McNabb and Jamaal Brown last offseason. If the Patriots are the gold standard for building great teams through the draft, the Skins' methods for the last 12 years should be a cautionary example of how to stay mediocre in today's NFL.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Bobby Beathard's Redskins drafted a lot of duds in the mid to late rounds. A lot. Not to mention regularly traded out of the first round. But he did do a good job of putting the team in a position on draft day to afford to make countless mistakes. We haven't really put ourselves in that position recently.

That's essentially half of a good draft strategy; getting picks. The other half is of course scouting & drafting well. We haven't drafted that poorly on a per capita basis compared to the rest of the league, we just have squandered so many picks that we've got less to show for our drafts.

[SmootSmack]

I thought the trade for Brunell was fine, Kendall we got I think for a 5th rounder (shouldn't have come to that, but not a bad move for some veteran OL help). Portis has had (if it's over) quite a career for the Redskins. The Duckett move was a total waste. Didn't like it from the start. Expected much more from Lloyd, but he was a WR in his prime when we traded for him.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by ethat001

This is exactly what I meant. Sure, every year every team tries to get younger. BUT rebuilding means that you (1) keep your draft picks, and (2) trade away older core great players to get more picks or younger players. Just like NE trading Randy Moss - good player but the 3rd round pick is more valuable to the team in the long-term. Brilliant.

For us, it'd be any of these guys:
- Cooley
- S.Moss
- C. Rogers
- A.Carter

These are great players but -- how would they help us in the next 3 years? They'd all be older than 31-32 by then, and past their primes. Better to have a younger player that can be around for 10 years.

That is what I meant about rebuilding. Again, I'm not sure we're going to do it. If we get lucky with picks and trades, we can put together a good team each year. But rebuilding has the potential to make a great team for a decade, like NE/Ravens/etc.

I'd add Landry as the most tradable player we have. Certainly I don't want to see him go, but what if a scenario like this comes up:

LL, AH & our 1st rounder to NO (the GW connection w/Landry) for multiple picks, e.g. their 1st-3rd? I'm just sayin, Landry is the only guy that could generate a blockbuster deal. I would hope Orakpo is off limits unless we get a H. Walker type offer.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

That's essentially half of a good draft strategy; getting picks. The other half is of course scouting & drafting well. We haven't drafted that poorly on a per capita basis compared to the rest of the league, we just have squandered so many picks that we've got less to show for our drafts.

Agreed, to an extent. Good draft strategy is either accumulating picks or making smart decisions with the picks you have. But I've brought up the Patriots in the past, they have had several draft picks that either a) contributed nothing in their first year and/or are no longer with the team, let alone in the league. But they give themselves countless opportunities to build the team

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Agreed, to an extent. Good draft strategy is either accumulating picks or making smart decisions with the picks you have. But I've brought up the Patriots in the past, they have had several draft picks that either a) contributed nothing in their first year and/or are no longer with the team, let alone in the league. But they give themselves countless opportunities to build the team

pats & iggles have had about the same strategy over the years; build through the draft, acquire additional picks when possible & let old players walk or trade them.

[CrazyCanuck]

Yes.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Graham Gano essentially represents the conundrum Redskins fans face. Ask every 5 Redskins fans, and probably 3 want him gone. But if you want to rebuild, you probably have to have patience and put up with Gano missing some kicks, Sundberg botching a snap, Banks fumbling, Riley committing a penalty, Moore missing a tackle...that said, there's a fine (very fine) line between being patient and holding on for too long

Don't have a problem with Gano missing yesterday. Keep the guy around and let him learn from it and hopefully it will make him mentally tougher. Same w/ Riley. Actually I'd like to see Riley get snaps on defense and Banks more snaps on offense. At this point what good does it do the team in the future to keep putting Roydell Williams out there? Moore really doesn't seem like he's a good player. If your free safety can't tackle then it's time to move on.

[GusFrerotte]

YEah, the Skins have been rebuilding, just not doing a good job of it. This organization has been rebuilding since Gibbs left the first time. The Turner years would have been more succesful if we had drafted a lot wiser than we did. THe Shuler bust forced us to go to guys that were brought in to be nice young backups(Frerotte, Green), but ended up being starters. If Shuler didn't suck, and lived up to expectations the franchise would have been fine. The Desmond Howard debacle hurt also. The past ten years has sucked for us in the draft as well. To me we need a new and improved scouting crew, but even that is worthless if the FO doesn't have some sort of plan in place to build a winner. THus far, I am not seeing it. THis past draft we did get Trent, but the rest of it seemed disjointed since we gave up picks. KEEP THE PICKS DAMNIT!!!!!!!!

[drew54]

Could have resigned Trent Green, but instead gave up 3 draft picks to the Vikings for a 2 year rental of Brad Johnson.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by drew54

Could have resigned Trent Green, but instead gave up 3 draft picks to the Vikings for a 2 year rental of Brad Johnson.

I think the ownership issue prevented us from giving a more lucrative offer to Green.