What if Ramsey isn't the man?

[MTK]

By the way, to clear things up once again, Dallas is not 3-6 because of who's behind center.

They are struggling because two of the key elements in a Parcells' coached team are missing. A running game and a strong defense.

If Dallas had both of those elements right now (like they did last year), I guarantee you Vinny would be looking much better.

[Gmanc711]

I agree with Matty. The only reason for a change in Dallas, is to get Henson ready to play and see what he can do. If he's not a good player, then they have to draft someone else or pick up a FA ( Brees ).

The only reason to consider benching Vinny is because of his age, and that he will not be a asset to the team for a very long time. He is certianly not the problem up there, in my opinion. Henson COULD be a better qb, I really have no idea. I dont follow the Cowboys close enough to know how good he is. I just know, Vinny isnt playing as bad as the wrap he is getting.

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by That Guy

SUNRA, do you know the difference between someone thinking a guy is dumb and someone calling/thinking he's a N*****... i sure as hell hope so. before calling people racist, maybe think about the fact that QC made bad decisions (besides drugs, he had more ints than TDs, etc).

again with the records... craig kenzel is 3-0 as a starter, he's obviously the best qb in the nfl, and the sole reason the bears are winning those games, right?

(btw, not an insult, its an honest question)

Let me try to enlighten you. First of all, I am a 37-year old black man who has heard enough statements made consciously or unconsciously by whites when describing black quarterbacks that are not used when describing their white counterparts. That's why I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

To call someone a racist without explaining to them some of the offensive language or terminilogy used to describe black QB's is shallow and I'm not into that. People generally refer to Micheal Vick as a "running" QB. You know why that's offensive? He's not a running QB, He's a QB who has the ability to run and throw which is greatess weapon against the defense. It marginalizes Vick to appear to not really be a QB but more of a runningback who just happens to throw the ball here and there. The same thing can be said about Culpepper.

The best QB's in the league are Peyton Manning, Micheal Vick, Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper and Ben Rothlisberger. What do they all have in common? They all are great runners who can beat a team with their legs as well with their arms. But Manning isn't called a running QB. He's intelligent he can use his legs to avoid the sack and throw down field. While Vick is seen as guy who is a phenomenal athlete but not really a serious QB. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

You know SKINSROCK you bring up an issue that needs to be clarified. When you mentioned that even Dallas Fans wanted Carter out of Dallas and this is before the drug test issue, What was their reason for wanting him out of there, because of VinnyTesteverde? I'd like to see their faces right now. The reason this is the worse Cowboys team in ten years is because of an old ass washed up QB who was beaten out of his job like Brunell by a young QB and that arrogant and real smart ass Parcells needed and excuse to bump Carter off to make room for Testeverde knowing that Carter's abilities were greater than all of Dallas's QB's combined and that Testeverde would stink up the place and Carter would be asked to replace him. Carter showed intelligence by not shitting on Parcells in the media. I know a lot of Cowboys fans who thought it was a shitty and cut-throat way to get rid of a player who had just led his team to the playoffs. If Parcells did want Testeverde, Carter would still be in Dallas. So the issue of drugs was never an issue until the Tuna make it an issue.

huh? have to go with matty, its the D and the missing run game... if anything, they should have kept emmitt smith (and troy)... even last year all the analysis/pre game shows mentioned that they weren't winning because of QC and parcells needed to find a better QB... i don't think vinny is really any better, but obviously they had a legitimate reason to cut QC or he'd still be there.

[That Guy]

The best QB's in the league are Peyton Manning, Micheal Vick, Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper and Ben Rothlisberger. What do they all have in common? They all are great runners who can beat a team with their legs as well with their arms. But Manning isn't called a running QB. He's intelligent he can use his legs to avoid the sack and throw down field. While Vick is seen as guy who is a phenomenal athlete but not really a serious QB. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

a bit, but i've really never seen peyton do much running at all... and since mcnabb got TO, he hasn't run very much either (scrambling around the field, but not diving for first downs nearly as much as last year)... i've never heard culpepper described as a running QB, he's definately a passer who can run though... the problem with vick is unlike mcnabb and culpepper, he's only thrown for 1500 yards (vs 2400+, though he has completed 60% of passes) and he's the leading rusher on his team (#18 in the nfl, with the highest ypc in the league)... so if you're going to call anyone a running QB, its definately vick. I don't really see anything negative about it, though you obviously do... if ben was averaging 60ypg rushing, i'd call him a running QB too...

if you ask, how many teams would rather have vick, its a VERY high number, which should indicate that its not considered a bad thing. I think he called QC dumb cause of on field and off field choices, which is legitimate and that you may have read a little too far into that as a smear on all black QBs (there's dumb whiteys btw, like bledsoe... and crappy QBs too, which are mainly white (krenzel, brunell, miami) )

[That Guy]

quick add on, peyton has 38 yards rushing, like i said, NOT a running QB... aaron brooks is black and has 32 yards rushing (about 2200 passing), a good pocket passer, and mcnabb is on par for 240 rushing yards this year, well shy of his 420 yard per year average (he's always been a good passer, but when thrash is your #1 WR...).

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Let's not make something out of nothing here.

So if leading your team to a 10-6 record is 'intelligence', what's it called when you're cut the following year in the preseason in favor of a 41 year old QB??

Hmmm.....

Somebody wanna help me with the word? I think it starts with a D and ends with a B.

First of all, what is considered nothing to you, is a real issue to me. If you are not offended by what was said then good for you . I commented on his use of words when describing a black QB who is not dumb, or unintelligent by any imagination. What makes any of the QB's in Dallas so much smarter than Carter? He failed the urine test and they didn't. Drew Henson is a joke. He hasn't played in three years but he's on the team. I'm not gonna mention Tony Roma, he's a waste of time. Now Testeverde lost his home with the Jets to a young QB just like Brunell did. He was a man without a country. Nobody wanted him accept a man in Dallas. When that man in Dallas announced that Testeverde was coming to Dallas, the anti-Quincy Carter campaign began and a lot of people fell for the failed drug test crap. If Testeverde hadn't come there Carter would still be in Dallas.

Now Parcells is a real New York/ New Jersey kind of guy. He says what he means and means what he says. Right? Look at the track record of the Giants organization. To this day, the Giants have never had a black QB as a starter or backup in the francises history. You see a lot of people don't like to talk race because it will bring up the ugly truth about what is real and with a lot of coaches and organizations that are not comfortable with the new program.

Face it, Carter didn't "fit" Parcell's image of what a QB should be.
Here comes Parcells to his rival Cowboys. Do you think he wanted to start his season off with this Carter who was nothing like Phil Simms or Testeverde?
Parcells didn't like Carter from the beginning because Carter because Carter was different. Not different in a lack of intelligence, but just hard to coach. Carter didn't fit the mode of what a QB is or should be for Parcells.

With all that said, I'm glad as hell that it's coming back to bite him in the ass. His decisions to get rid of good players and replace them with shit is good for him and Quincy Carter. Holla back.

[SUNRA]

[QUOTE=That Guy]quick add on, peyton has 38 yards rushing, like i said, NOT a running QB... aaron brooks is black and has 32 yards rushing (about 2200 passing), a good pocket passer, and mcnabb is on par for 240 rushing yards this year, well shy of his 420 yard per year average (he's always been a good passer, but when thrash is your #1 WR...).[/QUOTE

I didn't mention all black QB's I just mentioned the best top five in the league. That's why I didn't mention Brooks. Pam Oliver interviewed Culpepper on the Fox show about four weeks ago. The subject of race was brought up and Culpepper talked about his resentment of being called a running QB by white sports announcers because that's where the stereotypes begin." He said he's just a QB who has the ability to run and throw and that's it. I would consider him a QB who can run and pass. At the end of the interview, James Brown thanked Pam Oliver for bringing the subject up about race and the QB because as James Brown stated and I quote, " It's good to hear coach Mike Tice refer to Culpepper as smart and intelligent because that is not an adjective that is generally used when describing a black QB." See a lot of people like to point at a black QB's athletic abilty rather than his intelligence and abilities. This was used for years when describing Jordan as opposed to Byrd. The Great Athlete versus the Great Basketball player.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

SUNRA,

I've heard the sentiments you expressed about whites implying that black QBs aren't smart passers. It's disgusting and crazy. You'd think in the 21st century that kind of crap wouldn't still be around. When Rush Limbaugh made those quasi-racist statements about McNabb, just about EVERYONE assailed Limbaugh and came to McNabb's defense.

That said, I don't think anyone on this board has been making such statements. QC is dumb (as are many other black and many white football players) for using drugs (even if it was just weed) when he knows that using such drugs jeopardizes his opportunity to get millions of dollars and a job most of us would kill for. Also, QC never did have the "smarts" that Parcells wanted in a QB. Namely, QC turned the ball over WAY too many times. True, QC is young, but Parcells doesn't tolerate mistakes by anybody.

You also make a serious charge that Parcells is a racist. Make sure you have something to back up those charges before you levy them. Fact is, there were not many black QBs in the NFL of starting caliber when Parcells was coaching in NY. That might be for racist or other reasons. But you can't say (or strongly imply) that Parcells is a racist simply by using highly suspect circumstantial evidence.

I've read one racist post on this site since I've been around and that poster was banned from the board and I ripped him a new one on the thread. But, it is equally important not to say or imply that someone is racist unless there is solid support to back up those serious charges.

[That Guy]

Now Testeverde lost his home with the Jets to a young QB just like Brunell did. He was a man without a country. Nobody wanted him accept a man in Dallas. When that man in Dallas announced that Testeverde was coming to Dallas, the anti-Quincy Carter campaign began and a lot of people fell for the failed drug test crap. If Testeverde hadn't come there Carter would still be in Dallas.

except a lot of people disliked carter last season, he's just not that good. And physically byrd wasn't even close to jordan... jordan is obviously smart (And VERY competitive), as he could hold his own at 40; byrd could barely walk when he retired...

seriously, you've implied in this one thread that parcells, one poster, and the entire giants franchise is racist... maybe you need to chill on being so quick to judge... its hypocritical and wrong.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

As to McNabb and Vick being "running QBs," I don't think anyone could deny that they aren't. That's not racist, it's simply a fact. McNabb has been staying in the pocket a lot more this year and he's got amazing arm strength, accuracy and vision. So, this year I wouldn't described him as a running QB, I'd call him a QB who can run. But Mike Vick was and is a running QB; he racks up more rushing yards in many games than a lot of tailbacks and he often posts under 200 yards passing.

It doesn't matter whether they run or throw, as long as they move the ball into the endzone. Vick and McNabb both do that. It doesn't mean that they aren't smart. In fact, their vision and smarts allows them to run when they see running lanes and no open recievers. It would be dumb for them not to run when they can.

So I don't think labeling someone a running QB or scrambling QB has any racist connotations in and of itself.

[That Guy]

the problem i have is cause parcells didn't want QC, or that a poster called him dumb is immediately considered racism... there are dumb white guys that make bad decisions, so why can't there be dumb black guys too? and if you think the giants would have passed on eli (or another black proscept) if he was black is insane... strahan is the biggest voice of the franchise, and didn't they have LT under parcells?

the only openly racist team i can recall is the redskins, in the 1960s the owner tried to field an all white team, and they sucked hard, so he had to give that idea up pretty quickly...

[Daseal]

Ive given up on this thread. It's been a train wreck since the begining and somehow got on the subject of race? Jesus...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Ive given up on this thread. It's been a train wreck since the begining and somehow got on the subject of race? Jesus...

I agree.

I'm locking the thread, it's headed down the toilet.