I think the Redskins should Go to A 3-4 Defense.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'll be the first to say don't tinker with something that's not broke but to me and I'll repeat to me 4th best in the league is a shocker. I know every year or every other year we are in the top 10 as a defense, but I just can't help feeling like ....yes the team was a top notch D but I feel like it struggled all season to even get there.

No pass rush
very few sacks
very few interceptions
DL not being able to collapse the pocket
No defensive TD's

It's the same feeling I get about the Special Teams. Every year I wonder why we can't get beyond the 30 yard line on KR. Why our PR can't seem to get more yards then 5 everytime teams punt to us. Then some one has to come along and present the stats for the year and if it's not Vinny then he's taking notes from the blogs cause we next see him on tv with the whole ...."they were 4th in the league. That's incredible. What more can we ask of them?" LOL.

I don't think there's any dispute our special teams sucked donkey balls. But dude you have to give props to our d. We shut down the run almost every game. This is huge and we shouldn't take it for granted. We hold receivers to very few YAC most of the time. We've been able to get QBs on the run to disrupt plays.

... you're still right on your criticisms. I think a nice upgrade @ left end would do us a hell of a lot of good and it looks like we'll be searching for another OLB so might as well upgrade there too (i'm thinking FA in both cases). But my point is a couple of additions and we should start to see some of the weaknesses turn around.

... i also keep in mind we did all this after losing our best player... RIP miss you forever Sean...

[Skins_4_Lyfe]

May not be a bad idea since we don't like addressing our need at D-line, that will be one less D-line possition to worry about.

[over the mountain]

it is an interesting "what if" to think about as you are parked on the beltway waiting to go home . . but like most have said, we are not anywhere close to being set up for a 3-4 but man i do love watchin some 3-4 D just to see all those LBs come up to the line either blitzing or showing blitz and dropping back into coverage. i like trying to guess which ones are coming and which ones would be dropping back then seeing if the qb read it right and adjusted correctly.

go skins!!

[Son Of Man]

The biggest issue with going to a 3-4 (although I love that defensive scheme) is our lack of a wide bodied Nose Tackle to clog the middle. Without that, the 3-4 is no good (think Cleveland Browns before Shaun Rogers). All great 3-4 teams have a hube NT to clog the middle like Casey Hampton of the Steelers. Plus we have limited depth at LB. It would take years to properly convert to a 3-4... and a new coordinator.

[LandrySlice]

Bingo too that, are defense was a top 10 last year, so why would we want to get rid of a quality coordinator in Blache??? Also, we don't have close to the right personel for this kind of D, I think our biggest DL is Griffin, and who knows how long he is gonna be around. What the team does in FA should answer what path our D will be going down. Does anyone support bringing Peppers or Haynesworth to the team, I would also mention Suggs, but I think he is staying a Raven.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Son Of Man

The biggest issue with going to a 3-4 (although I love that defensive scheme) is our lack of a wide bodied Nose Tackle to clog the middle. Without that, the 3-4 is no good (think Cleveland Browns before Shaun Rogers). All great 3-4 teams have a hube NT to clog the middle like Casey Hampton of the Steelers. Plus we have limited depth at LB. It would take years to properly convert to a 3-4... and a new coordinator.

You are correct. Our roster is not built for the 3-4. We do not have a strong, powerful and skilled enough NT like (Pit) Casey Hampton or (Ravens) Haloti Ngata that can control two gaps, either side of the center. I am not talking about size, I am talking about strength and skill enough to manhandle the other teams center and guard.
The only one that might be able to do it for a little while until he gets hurt is Griffen.
Montgomery, Golston and Alexander do not have the ability. Montgomery has the size but he has not displayed the strength or skill to cover two gaps. He can cover one well, but not two which is the requirement for a 3-4 defense to be able to stop the run effectively.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by LandrySlice

Bingo too that, are defense was a top 10 last year, so why would we want to get rid of a quality coordinator in Blache??? Also, we don't have close to the right personel for this kind of D, I think our biggest DL is Griffin, and who knows how long he is gonna be around. What the team does in FA should answer what path our D will be going down. Does anyone support bringing Peppers or Haynesworth to the team, I would also mention Suggs, but I think he is staying a Raven.

Agreed with the first point, I don't know why people want to get rid of Blache so badly. Did he coach the offensive line or something? Because otherwise, I feel the defense keept this team from being worst than 8-8.

On your last question, I don't think the team can afford a Haynesworth or Peppers, nor do I think they plan to go after a high profile free agent.

[gdrskins]

I think that wold be a good idea!!!!

[freddyg12]

First off, this is a worthwhile discussion at this time of year. Second,let's not give to much credit to the #4 ranking. Sure, the D kept us in games, but I believe that by season's end they were just above avg. Offenses knew that if they were patient our D couldn't shut them down entirely. I know they were on the field a long time in some games, but they are not as imposing as a #4 ranking would seem. Next year they could really fall hard.

I never liked the 3-4 just because the Skins never have run it. But I also didn't like the WCO for the same reason, just seems foreign. When I think about it though, what makes these 3-4 teams stand out are the linebackers. The system allows tweener guys to develop, whereas those same guys are often undersized in a 4-3.

The style of systems being used is often a reflection of the types of players available. Seems these days there are a lot of guys that can play OLB/DE in a 3-4 that are not really suited to be 4-3 DEs.

Ever wonder why so many 4-3 DEs are busts in the draft? yet you don't hear about many OLBs that are busts. The Skins have passed up a lot of talented 3-4 OLB/DEs, a position which seems to be a surplus in the college ranks. Take a look at this year's DEs, most of them aren't over 255-260 lbs. For that reason alone, a 3-4 makes sense to me, but only if the whole staff is blown up. Otherwise, it's not practical anytime soon.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

First off, this is a worthwhile discussion at this time of year. Second,let's not give to much credit to the #4 ranking. Sure, the D kept us in games, but I believe that by season's end they were just above avg. Offenses knew that if they were patient our D couldn't shut them down entirely. I know they were on the field a long time in some games, but they are not as imposing as a #4 ranking would seem. Next year they could really fall hard.

I never liked the 3-4 just because the Skins never have run it. But I also didn't like the WCO for the same reason, just seems foreign. When I think about it though, what makes these 3-4 teams stand out are the linebackers. The system allows tweener guys to develop, whereas those same guys are often undersized in a 4-3.

The style of systems being used is often a reflection of the types of players available. Seems these days there are a lot of guys that can play OLB/DE in a 3-4 that are not really suited to be 4-3 DEs.

Ever wonder why so many 4-3 DEs are busts in the draft? yet you don't hear about many OLBs that are busts. The Skins have passed up a lot of talented 3-4 OLB/DEs, a position which seems to be a surplus in the college ranks. Take a look at this year's DEs, most of them aren't over 255-260 lbs. For that reason alone, a 3-4 makes sense to me, but only if the whole staff is blown up. Otherwise, it's not practical anytime soon.

Good post. There seems to be an abundance of "tweeners" in this years draft. A lot of these guys who are passed over could probably make an impact in the 3-4. With these type of players and the success of the Pittsburgh defense among others, this may be something to start gearing for in the future. I don't see it happening with the Skins in the near future though. Blache is a 4-3 guy. I do like his "cobra" package which brings something different to the table.

[Hamoskinz]

I like the idea but not next year, rather something we look at 3-4 years down the line IF we have a coach who can install it and 4-5 players on our rosters who could fit the 3-4 Defense. Right now, the key pieces which are caoch, NT and OLB, we do not have. Montgomery cannot be a NT, he doesn't cover the 2 gap and handle the double teams as it, and offenses would have field day running up the middle. Carter is too small to be a 3-4 DE and probably a poor OLB.

Lets stick with the 4-3 D for now, though we are #4 overall, we are much worse in terms of sacks, ints, FFs except yds given up.

What I love about the 3-4 D is its versatility and how it disguises its blitzing and coverage schemes (Pitts & Baltimore). QBs have a hard time reading who is blitzing and who is in coverage, something we currently lack or we are not executing properly. The only exotic blitz we have in our arsenal is the SS or CB blitz which arrives 5 secs late and gives up the big play.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

It's probably already been said, but you can't run a 3-4 without a massive, dominant nose tackle. Last time I checked, we don't have one.

[over the mountain]

^^ damn fine first post there hamoskinz . .welcome aboard.

and nice insight/opinion there freddyg, never really thought of that. makes sense to me, id like to see some kinda data or fact based analysis on it.

go skins!!

4:11 pm is the new 5:00 pm. im outta here!!

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

It's probably already been said, but you can't run a 3-4 without a massive, dominant nose tackle. Last time I checked, we don't have one.

As if we didn't have enough of a positional laundry list entering the draft this year.

With our team's volatile nature the last thing we need to do is switch our only consistent aspect.

[Hamoskinz]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

^^ damn fine first post there hamoskinz . .welcome aboard.

Cheers