Understanding the Issues: Education

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

To me, it matters a lot.

If you had unprotected sex before marriage and ended up as a single parent, even though you're probably receiving child support, you got yourself into that mess. I don't think it should be my responsibility as a taxpayer, who was careful to use protection during sex in my single years, to bail you out. I'm here taking care of myself and acting responsible, and now I have to pay taxes to bail these people out who didn't? I'm all for helping people who are down on their luck; ie husband was laid off from a manufacturing job and decided to run out on the family, spouse killed in an auto accident leaving a single mom raising 3 kids, etcetera. But that's only a small % of single parents, the majority are in that situation because of bad decision-making.

Now, the kids come first. So my distaste for the choices made by the parents shouldn't hold kids back. They can't help the situation they were born into. So in the end I relent; I have to say I agree with helping these kids with after-care programs.

But it doesn't taste good.

Wow I hope you make it through life and never make a bad decision. If my tax money went to someone to help them through a bad decision I would be happy. The sad thing is our tax money is mainly wasted on missles being used to kill other people.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

As long as your school/teachers are striking the appropriate balance between teaching the core material and teaching how to analyze the questions, then I think the kids are in good shape. Remember, kids don't take these tests every year. They take them in like 1st grade, then 4th, then 7th, then 11th. Or something like that (I don't know the exact years). But my point is there are like 3 or 4 years between tests. In all that time, kids are not spending an inordinate amount of time on the test analysis. They're getting the building blocks over time, then when they come to the year for test time, then they get the analysis stuff.

I'll bet if you ask 4th grade teachers (or whatever year they administer the test), they're probably the ones most aggravated and affected. The other teachers probably don't care much, as they get to focus on core curriculum.

In Virginia, the SOL's are taken every grade level except kindergarten. I'm fairly certain that any state that wants to keep receiving federal money for meeting the No Child Left Behind requirements has to have some form of yearly standardized testing for every grade level.

[firstdown]

I agree with what you said on several things except this.

but if you really wanted to save money, you'd increase the military to where it was before BRAC and clinton hit it instead of wasting SOOO much more money on contractors. A contracted termite exterminator makes 120k a year in iraq, an army exterminator makes 25k (closer to 40-50k with all bonuses etc). with what we've spent on contractors over the price of the old bigger military, we could have kept the bigger military for 25 more years and still be

While I agree a contractor makes more money up front than a person in the service the difference is in the benifits. So we pay a contractor 125 k for two years and we are done paying them but a person in the service will receive benifits for a life time making their cost much, much more. I'm not getting into which way is the best but it is much cheaper to use contractors for alot of jobs.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

To me, it matters a lot.

If you had unprotected sex before marriage and ended up as a single parent, even though you're probably receiving child support, you got yourself into that mess. I don't think it should be my responsibility as a taxpayer, who was careful to use protection during sex in my single years, to bail you out. I'm here taking care of myself and acting responsible, and now I have to pay taxes to bail these people out who didn't? I'm all for helping people who are down on their luck; ie husband was laid off from a manufacturing job and decided to run out on the family, spouse killed in an auto accident leaving a single mom raising 3 kids, etcetera. But that's only a small % of single parents, the majority are in that situation because of bad decision-making.

Now, the kids come first. So my distaste for the choices made by the parents shouldn't hold kids back. They can't help the situation they were born into. So in the end I relent; I have to say I agree with helping these kids with after-care programs.

But it doesn't taste good.

To add on to what he said each time we offer a new benfit to unwed mothers or fathers it just makes it that much easier for them to keep doing what they are doing. Its not like allot of them make this mistake once, they have several children with different dads and just keep combounding the problem knowing that big goverment will do just enough to keep them going.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Just curious, has anyone's opinion changed or been affected on who they will vote for based on these Understanding The Issues threads I've started?

My opinion of the candidates hasn't been changed, but if I jump into any of these discussion it forces me to do some further research into each candidate's positions...which is a very good thing.

I think these threads are a good idea. They won't change the opinion of supporters on either side, but the posts in the thread that are thoughtful, show some level of research or critical thinking, and make an argument backed up by fact, not rhetoric will be helpful for folks out there who are truly undecided or uninformed.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I can only speak for myself, but I can't say my opinion of the candidates has changed appreciably. This is partly because I think I already have a good understanding of where they're coming from on each issue. But these threads have served to educate me and the discussion has been very intelligent and thought provoking. These threads are a tremendous motivation to get up in the morning and check The Warpath first thing.

While my opinion of the candidates themselves hasn't been appreciably altered, I have learned some details of their stances, and have been surprised at times to discover that there are some democratic things I like, and some republican things I dislike. As a result, these threads have helped me gain an understanding of just how moderate I am.

Well, the reason for starting them was to generate some discussion on actual issues and to go beyond inanities such as "a vote for McCain is a vote for death" (or whatever it was that said on this board recently.

Also, hopefully these are giving some of the younger chaps out there who may be voting for the first time some ammo with which to make a decision, beyond just "well my parents are voting for McCain so I guess I will too."

These are important times, and I think far too often voters simply don't know why they are making the decisions they make.

At the very least, these have been educational for me. And maybe, just maybe, I'm more of a Democrat than I ever imagined.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

To add on to what he said each time we offer a new benfit to unwed mothers or fathers it just makes it that much easier for them to keep doing what they are doing. Its not like allot of them make this mistake once, they have several children with different dads and just keep combounding the problem knowing that big goverment will do just enough to keep them going.

I agree on principle what you're saying, but the hard-working, dual-income parents suffer now because we don't want the "bad decision makers" to receive the benefits of a well funded after school program. Not increasing the funding for the program will not decrease the amount of single parents and the amount of children they have. I don't think the benefit of keeping your kids enrolled in an after school program is a consideration for having more kids out of wedlock. Parents don't warn their teenage daughters that if they have unprotected sex then their kids will go to after school programs while they work. Bottom line is there are and always will be children that need some place to go after school that is safe while their parents are working.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Wow I hope you make it through life and never make a bad decision. If my tax money went to someone to help them through a bad decision I would be happy. The sad thing is our tax money is mainly wasted on missles being used to kill other people.

If I make my bed, I expect to lie in it. I don't want the government's help.

And those missiles are there to keep you safe, homey. It's not like the US government goes around killing innocent civilians all the damn time. Those missiles are designed to kill people who are TRYING TO KILL YOU. Yes YOU.

This hyperbole about the US government being evil and just out to kill people needs to stop. It's ridiculous and uneducated.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Whose political platform is "bomb bomb bomb?" McCain's? Bush's current record?

Nobody just "bomb bomb bombs", saden. It's that kind of uneducated generalization that makes me dismiss a lot of your political thoughts because you clearly don't have an understanding of the opposing party's political platform.

I think he's probably expounding on McCain's perhaps ill-timed joke of "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" to the tune of the Beach Boys' Barbara Ann

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

If I make my bed, I expect to lie in it. I don't want the government's help.

And those missiles are there to keep you safe, homey. It's not like the US government goes around killing innocent civilians all the damn time. Those missiles are designed to kill people who are TRYING TO KILL YOU. Yes YOU.

This hyperbole about the US government being evil and just out to kill people needs to stop. It's ridiculous and uneducated.

Ok I nominate you the person who goes down and tells the single parent and their hungary child they can't have food becuse they made a poor decision.

As far as missilies go it takes two to fight. America sticks their noses in far too much shit that is none of our business.

[steveo395]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Ok I nominate you the person who goes down and tells the single parent and their hungary child they can't have food becuse they made a poor decision.

Nobody says they can't have food, but it is not the governments responsibility to give it to them. Whatever happened to working hard and taking responsibility for your own actions.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Whose political platform is "bomb bomb bomb?" McCain's? Bush's current record?

Nobody just "bomb bomb bombs", saden. It's that kind of uneducated generalization that makes me dismiss a lot of your political thoughts because you clearly don't have an understanding of the opposing party's political platform.

Whose talking about the opposing party? "Bomb bomb bomb" is a direct McCain quote, a joke he made that was not funny. He's the one that say he won't sit down unless all our demands are met. It's not funny and it's not diplomacy. Same goes for Bush.

I will have you know I know fully well what the opposing party's platform is and I disagree pretty much with their oppressive platform. Hell, they don't even honor their platform. Dismiss all you want but hey man, you're entitled to your opinion and generalizations too (poor are poor because they want to be poor).

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Ok I nominate you the person who goes down and tells the single parent and their hungary child they can't have food becuse they made a poor decision.

As far as missilies go it takes two to fight. America sticks their noses in far too much shit that is none of our business.

I agree that I do not want to see children going hungry which when it occures here is usuall the fault of the parent not taking advantage of programs allready in place. Then you have the local churches and organizations which help low income parents. I just feel that local goverment is better set up to take care of their own people. With the federal goverment we pay them to collect the tax, pay them to process the funds to the states, then pay the sates to send the money to the cities, then pay the cities to distribute the money. I have heard that 1 out of 4 dollars make it back to the people for social programs.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

And those missiles are there to keep you safe, homey. It's not like the US government goes around killing innocent civilians all the damn time. Those missiles are designed to kill people who are TRYING TO KILL YOU. Yes YOU.

This hyperbole about the US government being evil and just out to kill people needs to stop. It's ridiculous and uneducated.

Just to briefly expand on that.

It may be tempting to make the seemingly reasonable suggestion that "everyone" should disarm. But the deterrent effect of military power aside, the credibility of the disarmament depends directly on the transparency of the government. For that reason, I firmly believe that, yes, democratic governments have more of a "right" to possess nuclear weapons and even WMD than non-democratic ones. I didn't have a problem when, for example, India detonated nuclear weapons in 1998. On 12/13/01, there were armed gunmen about to storm into the capitol building in Delhi and open fire on a hall full of ministers leaving session. And although that attack was traced back across the border, India did not, and has not, taken military action. I don't know that history can truly show a war between two democratic nations (unless you count the Civil War I suppose). Totalitarian regimes, however, don't have any such mechanisms of restraint against the use of such weapons for aggressive purposes.

The problem with the projection of American power is that many believe it is always done only in economic self-interest, particularly now because we have the "Oil" President. And in the 1950's and '60s, it is true that the U.S. played a hand in toppling governments in order to install "our SOBs." That history, traditional imperialism, taints all discussions of U.S. use of force today. Another problem is that, unfortunately, many Americans believe foreign affairs began on 9/11/01 because few in the U.S. had cared
about anything international since 1991. So yes, we forget that the U.S. snubbed Kyoto and the ABM Agreement (and even reneged on its agreement with N. Korea, which has contributed to the crisis there today). There was this back of the hand disdain for any order imposed by anyone but ourselves. Sort of like the kid in the cafeteria that thinks he can butt in line anywhere he wants and even swipe a piece of bread off someone else's tray if he wants too. Then everything changed.

So we have this amnesia and in that amnesia we believe that the sun was shining, the birds were chirping, the kids were playing and then, all of a sudden, one fine day, "we were attacked." Unprovoked, unjustified, as if there had been no history before then. And because of that we operate under this philosophy of "good vs. evil." We brainwash ourelves with our own notion of "moral clarity," and in doing so don't actually think that there could be another way of looking at things. And that's all wrong. Because the U.S. can't behave irresponsibly like that. That's not the way a superpower behaves.

Like a dad, a superpower has to understand that what it does is just, if not more, important than what it says. If dad respects mom, then big brother will respect little brother and so forth. Dad doesn't need to prove he's dad; everyone knows that. But dad does need to set the tone for how everyone else in the family gets along. And the U.S. still has some growing up to do in that department.

But, like it or not, the U.S. IS the superpower of today's world. That is a fact. And because it can, it does project its power and its interest around the world. That being said, however, today's U.S. is a relatively benign superpower. It does not have traditional imperialistic territorial ambitions. It does certainly pursue its economic self-interest, but it's more profound than that. The U.S. has the lowest trade barriers (I believe) and is the dispenser of the most foreign aid, neither of which are in its immediate and direct economic self-interest. If all the U.S. wanted out of the Middle East was "oil," it could just as well have cozied up to a leader like Hussein. After all, wouldn't it have been simple certainty to invest in the one man at the switch of the spigot rather than to risk it to millions? And the U.S. is made up immigrants from all over the world, a diversity that slowly, but surely, is swaying its policies. It is the most representative country that there is.

But the U.S. does bother with these things. It bothers with defending free elections and open markets until tearing down the Iron Curtain. And it bothers with defending against genocide by a despot on trial in a docket in the Hague (the now deceased Milosevic). And it bothers now to run to the desert.

In 2000, the U.S. had a humorous and even embarrassing episode whereby it couldn't pick its own President. But for the month that that went on, the country functioned normally and not a drop of blood was shed.

In 2001, out of the clear blue sky, two airplanes took down two of our tallest buildings and 3,000 civilians with them. Not to mention an airplane that was taken down in Pennsylvania by passengers who plunged themselves to their own deaths when they realized the plane was trying to go to Washington. That same day, Congress assembled in the open air on the Capitol steps to sing a patriotic song.

As naive as this sounds, I really do believe all this "freedom" stuff. And I think the world has been and is better for it.

There’s some “Education” for you bitches!

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

If I make my bed, I expect to lie in it. I don't want the government's help.

And those missiles are there to keep you safe, homey. It's not like the US government goes around killing innocent civilians all the damn time. Those missiles are designed to kill people who are TRYING TO KILL YOU. Yes YOU.

This hyperbole about the US government being evil and just out to kill people needs to stop. It's ridiculous and uneducated.

How comforting to those who have been killed and their families. But hey, your family is safe thanks to those missiles.

Please feel free to dismiss this post too.