Should Hillary Hang It Up?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Truman was the sitting President in 1948. In 1952 with Eisenhower vs. Stevenson, neither was an incumbent. Also 1928, Hoover vs. Al Smith. Hoover was Secretary of Commerce and Smith was the Catholic Governor of New York. 1908 Taft vs. W.J. Bryan. Taft had been Secretary of War and Bryan was the oft-defeated populist Democrat. 1896 McKinley vs. Bryan. McKInley was Governor of Ohio, I believe. Also there could be an interesting discussion about wether or not Grover Cleveland should be considered an incumbent in 1892. He was the non-consecutive President. I guess he should NOT be considered an incumbent as the stink of office had surely faded somewhat. Perhaps someone else can pick up the trail from here. Some of you could stand doing a little research.

In his defense, he did say since 1948. So, he should have said since 1952.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Truman was the sitting President in 1948. In 1952 with Eisenhower vs. Stevenson, neither was an incumbent. Also 1928, Hoover vs. Al Smith. Hoover was Secretary of Commerce and Smith was the Catholic Governor of New York. 1908 Taft vs. W.J. Bryan. Taft had been Secretary of War and Bryan was the oft-defeated populist Democrat. 1896 McKinley vs. Bryan. McKInley was Governor of Ohio, I believe. Also there could be an interesting discussion about wether or not Grover Cleveland should be considered an incumbent in 1892. He was the non-consecutive President. I guess he should NOT be considered an incumbent as the stink of office had surely faded somewhat. Perhaps someone else can pick up the trail from here. Some of you could stand doing a little research.

All you had to say was the part I bolded. The rest of the information is a nice little tidbit. But then the last line is out of place because it seems like it was an attack on the knowledge of the poster you quoted. Yet he never said anything about pre-1948.

[onlydarksets]

I meant Ike, but got the year wrong - I had to do my own research on this, so cut me some slack.
United States presidential election - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SeanTaylor21]

Hilary should hang it up now, because John Edwards is now endorsing Obama.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylor21

Hilary should hang it up now, because John Edwards is now endorsing Obama.

He also got the endorsement of the NARAL (National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League) today.

Which is pretty much a slap in the face to Clinton.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

He also got the endorsement of the NARAL (National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League) today.

Which is pretty much a slap in the face to Clinton.

Ouch, Hillary got gashed today. NARAL's blog is on fire...so many angry women.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

So people who don't vote for Obama are racist. I'm sure we'll all get a bellyful of this logic between now and November.

Also, it wasn't the Clintons that declared Bill Clinton to be the first black president, it was Toni Morrison. If Black America has a problem with him now, they only have themselves to blame. They were the backbone of his support and if not for them he would have surely been driven from office in disgrace and we would all have been rid of him.

People who say they didn't vote for Obama because of race are, to me, racist, and according to polls that was 20 percent of white voters in West Virginia. A recent Washington Post article has some pretty stunning anecdotes from some Obama volunteers Racist Incidents Give Some Obama Campaigners Pause . Let's not get all delusional and pretend that race doesn't exist in America anymore. While it's true that not supporting Obama doesn't make you a racist, it's insane to pretend that it won't be a factor in this race - and as an American that shames me.

And come on, Toni Morrison, while a tremendous author, is neither an intellectual nor a political leader in black America. Clinton remained in office because he enjoyed broad political support in various demographic groups. If "black America" wants to support a different candidate now it's not your place to patronizingly tell "them" that they essentially are reaping what they sowed. It's crazy that you blame "black America" for the success of one of the most popular presidents in modern history, whom you happen to disagree with.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

People who say they didn't vote for Obama because of race are, to me, racist, and according to polls that was 20 percent of white voters in West Virginia. A recent Washington Post article has some pretty stunning anecdotes from some Obama volunteers Racist Incidents Give Some Obama Campaigners Pause . Let's not get all delusional and pretend that race doesn't exist in America anymore. While it's true that not supporting Obama doesn't make you a racist, it's insane to pretend that it won't be a factor in this race - and as an American that shames me.

True. To play devil's advocate though, what about those that would vote for Obama because he's Black?

Just throwing it out there. I think Obama could be a fine President, I just personally don't happen to agree with a lot of his opinions

[saden1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

True. To play devil's advocate though, what about those that would vote for Obama because he's Black?

Just throwing it out there. I think Obama could be a fine President, I just personally don't happen to agree with a lot of his opinions

It's wrong on all levels. If you don't believe in someone's message and you're just voting without considering the issues you're racist.

A lot has recently been made that the African American community is voting for Obama becasue he is black. Truth if Obama was a republican he would get the same amount of votes you'd expect Clarence Thomas or Alan Keys to get from African Americans. The reason he's winning the black vote is largely due to his appeal and the ineptness of the Clintons not because he's black. There's also the hope factor.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by saden1

It's wrong on all levels. If you don't believe in someone's message and you're just voting without considering the issues you're racist.

A lot has recently been made that the African American community is voting for Obama becasue he is black. Truth if Obama was a republican he would get the same amount of votes you'd expect Clarence Thomas or Alan Keys to get from African Americans. The reason he's winning the black vote is largely due to his appeal and the ineptness of the Clintons not because he's black. There's also the hope factor.

Funny you mention Alan Keyes. Didn't Obama win his Senate seat by defeating Keyes (after Ditka decided not to run)?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Funny you mention Alan Keyes. Didn't Obama win his Senate seat by defeating Keyes (after Ditka decided not to run)?

Yes sir, I guess he was so good the GOP thought it best to bring in Alan Keyes who isn't from Illinois to run against him. He killed him with 70% of the vote.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by saden1

Yes sir, I guess he was so good the GOP thought it best to bring in Alan Keyes who isn't from Illinois to run against him. He killed him with 70% of the vote.

And to think it all began because of some kinky sex allegations by Jeri Ryan (mmmm...Jeri Ryan, drooool)

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

True. To play devil's advocate though, what about those that would vote for Obama because he's Black?

It's no secret that some people are voting for Obama largely because of his race. It's also no secret that a small minority of Americans are voting against Obama because of his race. I think, however, there is a subtle, yet important distinction between voting for someone because of his/her race and voting against someone because of his/her race.

Mindful of our not so distant past, many Americans find it thrilling to see an African-American on the cusp of becoming our nation's leader. It signals a seismic shift in politics and race relations. It also gives hope to many minorities that they can aspire to become important figures in our society. So, in a sense, I can understand why some people vote for Obama, in part or whole, because he is African-American. It may be dumb to do so, but it is understandable.

On the other hand, to vote against someone because they are African-American is simply racist. I don't think I need to elaborate on this point. So, whereas the former group votes out of hope, the latter group votes out of hate. That's a sweeping generalization and it's not so simple, but I think it captures the gist of how I see this issue.

Personally, I would NEVER consciously vote for or against anyone because of his/her race. Superficial distinctions like race should not be used as a factor in determining whether someone should ascend to the highest position of power in the world.

Finally, as Saden noted, I do not think Obama's race is what is propelling his candidacy. Jesse Jackson didn't go too far in his bid for the presidency and neither did Alan Keyes. Obama has that "it" factor that Reagan, Kennedy and FDR did.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

True. To play devil's advocate though, what about those that would vote for Obama because he's Black?

Just throwing it out there. I think Obama could be a fine President, I just personally don't happen to agree with a lot of his opinions

That's not a point people want to speak about though. It's ok / pc to be racist for blacks, just not against them.
Racism is racism, and all of it should cease.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That's not a point people want to speak about though. It's ok / pc to be racist for blacks, just not against them.
Racism is racism, and all of it should cease.

I think we all agree that racism, in whatever form, should cease. The question here is whether it is racist to vote for a presidential candidate in part or whole because that candidate is black.

If your answer is yes, why? I assume your response is that any decision which is affected by someone's race is inherently a racist one. If that is the case, does that mean President Nixon was a racist because his administration aggressively pushed affirmative action? Or how about people who choose not to date people from a similar ethnic background? Does that mean that people who won't adopt kids from outside their race are racist?

I think it's sometimes difficult to discern what is really racist.