McNabb says black QBs criticized more

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

QBs that have been more successful than McNabb with equal or less "weaponry":

Matt Hasselbeck
Steve McNair
Brett Favre (pre and post-Walker)
Rich Gannon
Trent Green
Tom Brady
Drew Brees (circa SD)
Chad Pennington (pre shoulder injury)

The argument for McNabb over these guys is that all of these guys for one reason or another have faded in or out of the national spotlight, but all of these guys were better in their prime than Donovan was, and they were so throwing to guys like Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason, Antonio Freeman, Charlie Garner, Troy Brown, Eric Parker, and Laverneus Coles. James Thrash in his prime was at least as competant as a majority of those guys.

Prior to 03, McNabb never had an elite target. However, by 2004 and 05, he had two. Since then, he's still had Westbrook, who has only gotten better and better since he came into the league.

Receiver play does not excuse average passing. Its an adjustment factor. If McNabb was a deserving 5 time pro bowler, he'd be able to consistently complete more than 60% in a QB friendly offense. By this point in his career its obvious he isn't good enough to do so.

Good for him with his mobility, but it hasn't helped his numbers a whole lot. Maybe it has, but if thats the case, then he is not a very good pocket passer at all. Also, if that is the case, then now that his mobility is limited this year, he won't be a serious threat at all.

Anyway, this is not to take away from what the guy has accomplished (which is quite a bit) in his 8 1/8 years in this league, only to take away from what he hasn't accomplished: become an elite QB.

I think your opinions are so hell bent on stats that it clouds your judgement a bit. Just because a guy isn't a 65% passer does mean he is not an elite QB.

I bet if you asked 32 NFL defensive coordinators who would you rather defend. A healthy McNabb or Pennington? 32 out of 32 would say Pennington. Yes Pennington complets 65% but he isn't as good of a QB. McNabb can beat you with his arm and legs.

In a west coast style of offense he should be about a 60% passer or above. He is probably around 57% or 58% for his career. That is good enough to get the job done. Accuracy is not his strength. He is not Carson Palmer. Playmaking is his strength. There is a difference. If you don't understand the difference then so be it.

I think Jason Campbell could probably end up being a McNabb type of QB. He might not ever be a 65% passer like Pennington. But he makes plays that Pennington or Trent Green will never ever make with his downfield arm and mobility. Do you understand the difference????

[birdz4gibbs]

it,s all about playmaking abilities.. for me i much rather face pennigton than mcnabb cause his record against us shows that too.

accuracy is great but playmaking is what seperates the best from the rest..

[70Chip]

McNabb presser with the Philly media, much of it related to this topic:

ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet

[Texanskin]

Listen...if your not black please at least try to understand where he is coming from. The first thing people do is try to discredit what he is saying before really assessing WHY he made the statement. Yes, there are plenty of black quarterbacks today. But this is 2007 and I bet you cant name 25 quarterbacks in 75 years of the NFL. So when someone makes a statement that involves how he feels about history, people should not become so defensive and become more understanding as to WHY he said it.
****lets not forget this statement was made weeks before we beat the eagles. So at the time he was considered one of the best in the game****

I could go on & on. But being black there are things that you do have to do better than your white counterparts even in 2007. So I UNDERSTAND his statement but DO NOT USE it as an excuse for poor performance on the field.

[redskinsfanatic]

i'm a white man with many black friends who i gladly call my brothers.racism does rear its ugly head very frequent here in the south.i have seen the klan march all over this area,especially when i was younger.but maybe other than the jimmy the greek/linnbaugh examples,i can't ever remember the race issue in i the NFL.i would also stress anybody that has been talked at more than peyton manning till he won the superbowl last year.maybe only john elway,and jim kelly have ever been raked over the media coils more!

[skinsfan_nn]

IMO I don't want to hear him cryin about black QB'S having a tougher time in the NFL, what about the other position's in the NFL? Ratio white to black? There you have it.

He's a big ass crying baby that's been crying this same old tune for far to long, that happens to be INJURY PRONE and CAN'T PLAY LIKE HE ONCE COULD! Can't help it he's black.

[redskinsfanatic]

injuries have taken their toll on him,but the eagles coaching staff has never given him a decent reciever other than owens,thrash, and pinkston either.
i think it's more frustration than anything else.he's really gonna cry when he gets benched and kolb comes in for him.

[Bushead]

I still feel like this was manufactured news with an unethical stringing of video tape to a result.

[The Zimmermans]

I like McNabb as a person and a player. He's a black atlete who worked hard, defied odds and succeeded as a QB in the NFL...he can say what he wants, he has earned the right after managing to play in that City successfully for that long.

[Dlyne8r]

Please oh please don't get Jason Campbell mixed up in all of this crap. Now this from:

ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet

'SKINS QUARTERBACK DISAGREES WITH DONOVAN

I hope Florio doesn't make more of JC's comments than necessary. But, given PFT's rep, I wouldn't be surprised to hear more backlash from this.

[Paintrain]

I think McNabb is 100% right in what he says. Black QB have to be great, not good to keep a job in the NFL.. History in the past 10 years reinforces that. For example, how many black backups are out there? Proven losers or relative no names like Doug Johnson, Kerry Collins, Sage Rosenfels, Trent Edwards, etc. and washed up QB like Vinny Testaverde & Brad Johnson are collecting checks.. Doug Flutie got a 20 year career out of being a novelty act.

It took Byron Leftwich, a career 59% passer with a nearly 2-1 career TD/INT ratio nearly a month to get a contract after he was released. Aaron Brooks, nowhere near a great QB, really not even good but more accomplished than any of the aforementioned white QB (except Brad Johnson) is still out of the NFL. History is littered with good/decent black QB who never got another shot or didn't get the opportunity to hang on as a backup for 10+ years.. For every Anthony Wright, there are 3 Shaun Kings.

There are more black starting QB than there were years ago no doubt, but is Aaron Brooks any worse than 50% of the backups in the league today? That’s where McNabb’s point is being missed by the masses.. Black QB don’t get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to teams taking a chance on them, even as a backup… If Dennis Green took a chance on Randall Cunningham who was out of the league because nobody would bring him into even a training camp, he went on to win 15 games and be within a missed FG of going to the Super Bowl.. Those are the examples McNabb is talking about. JP Losman is in his 4th year of accomplishing nothing in Buffalo and yet there is minmal question or outcry for his job. Steve McNair was a MVP runner up, perennial pro bow QB, Super Bowl QB, had a bad year and fans & media were calling for Billy Volek..

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I think McNabb is 100% right in what he says. Black QB have to be great, not good to keep a job in the NFL.. History in the past 10 years reinforces that. For example, how many black backups are out there? Proven losers or relative no names like Doug Johnson, Kerry Collins, Sage Rosenfels, Trent Edwards, etc. and washed up QB like Vinny Testaverde & Brad Johnson are collecting checks.. Doug Flutie got a 20 year career out of being a novelty act.

It took Byron Leftwich, a career 59% passer with a nearly 2-1 career TD/INT ratio nearly a month to get a contract after he was released. Aaron Brooks, nowhere near a great QB, really not even good but more accomplished than any of the aforementioned white QB (except Brad Johnson) is still out of the NFL. History is littered with good/decent black QB who never got another shot or didn't get the opportunity to hang on as a backup for 10+ years.. For every Anthony Wright, there are 3 Shaun Kings.

There are more black starting QB than there were years ago no doubt, but is Aaron Brooks any worse than 50% of the backups in the league today? That’s where McNabb’s point is being missed by the masses.. Black QB don’t get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to teams taking a chance on them, even as a backup… If Dennis Green took a chance on Randall Cunningham who was out of the league because nobody would bring him into even a training camp, he went on to win 15 games and be within a missed FG of going to the Super Bowl.. Those are the examples McNabb is talking about. JP Losman is in his 4th year of accomplishing nothing in Buffalo and yet there is minmal question or outcry for his job. Steve McNair was a MVP runner up, perennial pro bow QB, Super Bowl QB, had a bad year and fans & media were calling for Billy Volek..

That's hard to bite. If that were true the black athlete would not comprise the 80% < > that curretly is the NFL norm. A bunch of second tier white guys would be there instead.
I think the current lack of quality QB's in the NFL is serious, and not lost on NFL management, and coach's. If he can throw the ball, I think Jamal Alvarez Feldman gets a contract this afternoon.
If Mcnabb is trying to help his cause, he's a stupid SOB if does not realize the effect his continued cry baby remarks are having.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Texanskin

I could go on & on. But being black there are things that you do have to do better than your white counterparts even in 2007. So I UNDERSTAND his statement but DO NOT USE it as an excuse for poor performance on the field.

Good points.

If Donovan had come out and said, "hey guys, don't you think I'm being unfairly critized based on a two game sample under special circumstances," I would be behind him 100%. At the end of the season when the Eagles offense starts producing like they should be and they compete for/make the playoffs, this early season criticism will be far in the mirror.

The problem is that he's trying to project his problem onto african-american quarterbacks around the league to get some extra support. Does anyone here think Steve McNair is being unfairly criticized? Jason Campbell? How about Tavaris Jackson? Byron Leftwich? Well...maybe Leftwich, but because of race?

He really has been overly sensitive to criticizms since the 2005 season and feels the need to defend himself in the media. While ignoring the media coverage is easier said than done, his best bet is to try to keep a low profile for awhile. Don't give pressers and whatnot. Things that you don't mean keep being said, and he may be wearing out his welcome with the mainstream fans.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

There are more black starting QB than there were years ago no doubt, but is Aaron Brooks any worse than 50% of the backups in the league today? That’s where McNabb’s point is being missed by the masses.. Black QB don’t get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to teams taking a chance on them, even as a backup… If Dennis Green took a chance on Randall Cunningham who was out of the league because nobody would bring him into even a training camp, he went on to win 15 games and be within a missed FG of going to the Super Bowl.. Those are the examples McNabb is talking about. JP Losman is in his 4th year of accomplishing nothing in Buffalo and yet there is minmal question or outcry for his job. Steve McNair was a MVP runner up, perennial pro bow QB, Super Bowl QB, had a bad year and fans & media were calling for Billy Volek..

Yes, yes he is. Brooks is terrible.

Look, people look at Losman's passer rating and think that he made a huge improvement in 2006. He didn't, because he threw for a high percentage of his teams TD's and that will heavily skew passer rating. Losman makes a ton of bad decisions, and although his periphials (comp % and Y/A) were pretty good last year, the ridculous jump between his second and third seasons has "fluke" written all over it. So far this year, Losman only has 5.5 y/a passing, not very good.

Scouting error, which is rampant in the NFL, is not evidence that black QBs are undervalued. If anything, QB athleticism is incredibly overvalued, be you black, white, or other. Look at Leftwich's case. The guy has better rushing skills than Carson Palmer, and better pocket mobility than Kyle Boller, but he's out of a job. Because of his race? No, because his coach spends all day on the defensive side of the ball, decides that fat people can't move, and thusly that Garrard is his QB.

Black QBs don't get the benefit of the doubt? Shaun King? Aaron Brooks? Tavaris Jackson? Rodney Peete? Jeff Blake? Anthony Wright?

None of these guys are superstars, but they all hung around as backups (save Jackson) while young prospects got put on the practice squad and then out of the league.

Tony Banks?

Ill agree that Warren Moon had to take the long road because of the era he played in, and Cunningham was met with a lot of criticizm, the type that McNabb thinks he's getting, but I believe that Moon and Cunningham cant be enamored with McNabb's feelings right now.

[Rajmahal33]

I think McNabb is right when he says that black QB's have to work harder to prove themselves, but he is wrong when he tries to use that as an excuse for why he gets more criticism.

The bottom line is that even though the NFL as well as many sports is a black majority league, there are certain stigmas for positions and which races should play them. The first part of donovan's statement was made with respect to this and he is right b/c im sure that black QB's have to work hard to shed the stigma that they are also talented passers. Earlier on this thread someone drew a parallel to White RB's which i think is true. Limbaugh got fired b/c he is a racist prick and even though he didn't bring up race directly he was hinting that Donovan's success was some sort of affirmative action enforced by the media. If donovan is an idiot (which i think he is) for making the additional comment that black QB's are criticized more then Rush is equally idiotic for making comments like he did. U can't argue it both ways!

I really don't know why bringing up Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the NAACP was necessary in any of these discussions. That, to me, sounds like ignorance by some members of this thread about other issues trying to poke its way into a benign discussion.