Patrick Ramsey Vs Philip Rivers

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by offiss

Defiently! If AJ Feeley can bring back a second so can Patrick.

I do believe those other QB's were put into much better circustances when they had their shot.

I wouldn't consider 1 quarter a fair assesment of Ramsey, We all know he outplayed Brunell the previous season, so after 1 quarter this past season he can't get the job done? Whoever thinks that's a fair opportunity can, I just hope you never run into that type of judgement in your life.

Feeley went 4-1 down the stretch for a playoff team in '02, was young (as is Ramsey) and had 'upside' according to the experts.. It was also the perfect storm for that trade to happen.. Miami was desperate for a young QB with upside, Feeley had buzz surrounding him.. That trade has been roundly criticized because it was a huge bust for the Dolphins.. If anything that will hurt us in the potential trade market.. Ramsey has shown more negative traits than Feeley had when they hit the trade market..

[GoSkins!]

The bottom line is that Ramsey is a seasoned NFL QB who has shown an ability to win games as a starting QB. While he has made mistakes, he has also shown improvement with his touch on throws. His downside is his lack of mobilty and desire to force plays to happen.

I really believe that being in the starting role more would improve his problem with forcing plays. If we cant get a second round pick for him, from a business point of view, I can't see why we would trade him. I guess that I just think that a smart team would rather have a quality backup QB than a second round gamble on draft day.

[jdlea]

I think the team should think of Patrick while they shop him. It's a waste for him to be here. He's not the QB of the present or the future. He needs to move on. I hope, for his sake, that the Skins make the deal.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Feeley went 4-1 down the stretch for a playoff team in '02, was young (as is Ramsey) and had 'upside' according to the experts.. It was also the perfect storm for that trade to happen.. Miami was desperate for a young QB with upside, Feeley had buzz surrounding him.. That trade has been roundly criticized because it was a huge bust for the Dolphins.. If anything that will hurt us in the potential trade market.. Ramsey has shown more negative traits than Feeley had when they hit the trade market..

It was probably the same experts who believe Ramsey can't play, because anyone with 2 eye's could see the guy was horrible, all he did was try to manage a game and not lose it as the rest of the team as a whole won it.

I laughed when that trade went down, it was so obvious that Feeley was the benefactor of being on a superior team. Just another case of someone evaluating a player because they saw his win lose record without looking at the circumstances that led to it, and whether or not those wins and loses stemmed directly from his play? Feeley was, and is, a joke of a QB, yet he commanded a #2, if we couldn't get a #2 for Ramsey at least, then I think we are foolish to trade him.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by offiss

It was probably the same experts who believe Ramsey can't play, because anyone with 2 eye's could see the guy was horrible, all he did was try to manage a game and not lose it as the rest of the team as a whole won it.

I laughed when that trade went down, it was so obvious that Feeley was the benefactor of being on a superior team. Just another case of someone evaluating a player because they saw his win lose record without looking at the circumstances that led to it, and whether or not those wins and loses stemmed directly from his play? Feeley was, and is, a joke of a QB, yet he commanded a #2, if we couldn't get a #2 for Ramsey at least, then I think we are foolish to trade him.

Ok, what's the alternative? Let's look at facts here and remove opinion from the equation.

Gibbs has done all he can (brought in 2 QB in 2 offseasons, immediately demoted Ramsey week 2, openly praised Campbell at the end of year presser while not even discussing Ramsey until questioned, didn't call him when Saunders was brought in but called Brunell and Campbell) to demostrate that he doens't believe Ramsey is the future at the position. Ramsey has said that he wants to play and he wants to start.

Is your suggestion that if the Redskins cannot get at least a 2nd round pick they should keep a player that they clearly have no intention of giving a chance to win the starting job?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by offiss

Interesting, what round was Montana picked? How bout Rypien, how far did Marino drop, what about Brady? Not that Patrick will ever be any of those QB's, all though I believe he is far better than Rypien, the point is Ramsey showed serious potential under SS, basically everyone was saying if this guy gets some protection he's going to be real good, the only thing that has hurt him since is that a hall of fame coach has benched him, so everyone believes something is wrong with him.

Bottom line, only time will deciede this debate. But remember Brady was on the bench behind a lowsey QB in Bledsoe, but because he was a top pick and had a big name he played, guess what? The coach who many are considering one of the great coaches of all time, and who many believe has passed Parcells by on the elite coaching ranks in history WAS WRONG! Brady was a nobody, a 6th rd pick, and if it wasen't for an injury he may still be on that bench who knows? But we do know this, Brady is already an all time great and he was sitting behind the likes of Bledsoe!

The difference is that Brady has shown on the field to be worth much more than the 6th round pick he started as. Can anyone say the same for Patrick? It doesn't matter if he deservd to be benched or not. All that matters is that 4 years in he still has not established himself as a starter. And you don't think this lowers his value in other teams minds?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I think the team should think of Patrick while they shop him. It's a waste for him to be here. He's not the QB of the present or the future. He needs to move on. I hope, for his sake, that the Skins make the deal.

The skins have no obligations to patrick beyond his weekly paycheck. they need to make the best deal for the Washington Redskins not Patrick Ramsey.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by celts32

The skins have no obligations to patrick beyond his weekly paycheck. they need to make the best deal for the Washington Redskins not Patrick Ramsey.

I realize that, they've been making that perfectly clear for the last 2 years.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Ok, what's the alternative? Let's look at facts here and remove opinion from the equation.

Gibbs has done all he can (brought in 2 QB in 2 offseasons, immediately demoted Ramsey week 2, openly praised Campbell at the end of year presser while not even discussing Ramsey until questioned, didn't call him when Saunders was brought in but called Brunell and Campbell) to demostrate that he doens't believe Ramsey is the future at the position. Ramsey has said that he wants to play and he wants to start.

Is your suggestion that if the Redskins cannot get at least a 2nd round pick they should keep a player that they clearly have no intention of giving a chance to win the starting job?

Let me ask you this, if Brunell goes down the last pre-season game, are you ready with a team who will be a serious super bowl contender, to have Campbell have to come in and lead this team to the big game?

The only thing Gibbs keeps saying about Campbell is that he is very accurate, I am sorry but if a QB is not very accurate in practice he has no buisness being a QB in any copasity on any major level in football. QB's have to be football smart and until he actually plays a real game we will have no clue whether he is or isn't, but even if he is it will take him a year to really come into his own, do we want to throw a season away under those circumstances? Especially for what everyone is stating a possible 3rd rd pick?

I have no doubt in my mind that we would be far better off next season under those circumstances that Ramsey can lead this team, and I have to believe that even the Brunell and Campbell supporters are going to have to agree with that under those circumstances, we all knew Campbell was a project when we drafted him, does anyone want to go into next season knowing Campbell is one hit away from being the man? Patrick has much more value to us as a backup, and I am one of the guys who would love to see him find a home somewhere else to get a fair shot, but I just don't htink it's a smart move for our team as a whole to leave ourselves exposed to a Brunell injury, and we all know he aint getting any younger, and Ramseys contract is very reasonable next season.


Back in the day I saw a similar scenerio with Gibbs, it surrounded Stan Humphries, for the life of me I couldn't understand why he wouldn't committ to him, when he was able to come in to play he looked IMO much better than Rypien, he had much more mobility than Rypien, and seemed to be a more instinctive QB, yet it alway's seemed Gibbs had it in for him, when Beathard went to the Chargers he immediatly went after Humphries and Humphries proved to be a very good QB leading a charger team that wasen't that good to a super bowl, I can say this, Rypien didn't have enough talent as a QB to lead that team to a SB, so Ramsey I believe is very capable of getting the job done, but theres no arguing Gibbs really does not like the guy.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by offiss

Humphries proved to be a very good QB leading a charger team that wasen't that good to a super bowl, I can say this, Rypien didn't have enough talent as a QB to lead that team to a SB, so Ramsey I believe is very capable of getting the job done, but theres no arguing Gibbs really does not like the guy.

Yeah, I guess being a Superbowl MVP is no indication that you could lead a talented team to the Superbowl. :yeahright

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by offiss

Let me ask you this, if Brunell goes down the last pre-season game, are you ready with a team who will be a serious super bowl contender, to have Campbell have to come in and lead this team to the big game?

The only thing Gibbs keeps saying about Campbell is that he is very accurate, I am sorry but if a QB is not very accurate in practice he has no buisness being a QB in any copasity on any major level in football. QB's have to be football smart and until he actually plays a real game we will have no clue whether he is or isn't, but even if he is it will take him a year to really come into his own, do we want to throw a season away under those circumstances? Especially for what everyone is stating a possible 3rd rd pick?

I have no doubt in my mind that we would be far better off next season under those circumstances that Ramsey can lead this team, and I have to believe that even the Brunell and Campbell supporters are going to have to agree with that under those circumstances, we all knew Campbell was a project when we drafted him, does anyone want to go into next season knowing Campbell is one hit away from being the man? Patrick has much more value to us as a backup, and I am one of the guys who would love to see him find a home somewhere else to get a fair shot, but I just don't htink it's a smart move for our team as a whole to leave ourselves exposed to a Brunell injury, and we all know he aint getting any younger, and Ramseys contract is very reasonable next season.


Back in the day I saw a similar scenerio with Gibbs, it surrounded Stan Humphries, for the life of me I couldn't understand why he wouldn't committ to him, when he was able to come in to play he looked IMO much better than Rypien, he had much more mobility than Rypien, and seemed to be a more instinctive QB, yet it alway's seemed Gibbs had it in for him, when Beathard went to the Chargers he immediatly went after Humphries and Humphries proved to be a very good QB leading a charger team that wasen't that good to a super bowl, I can say this, Rypien didn't have enough talent as a QB to lead that team to a SB, so Ramsey I believe is very capable of getting the job done, but theres no arguing Gibbs really does not like the guy.

You didn't answer the question, what's the alternative? From what you said, if the best offer we get in the offseason is a 3rd round pick we should hold on to a player that the coaching staff has no plans for and wants to be a starter somewhere and who is in the last year of his contract and will leave the following offseason for no compensation. Help me see the logic in that.

Am I completly comfortable with Campbell being one play away from being the starter, no. But I don't believe Ramsey is capable of leading the team to the Super Bowl in the same scenario either. I think the Redskins will bring in Todd Collins in the offseason (free agent, been with Saunders in KC for years) to be the #3 QB but in the case of an early season-ending injury to Brunell would be able to step in and run the offense if Campbell falls on his face.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

You didn't answer the question, what's the alternative? From what you said, if the best offer we get in the offseason is a 3rd round pick we should hold on to a player that the coaching staff has no plans for and wants to be a starter somewhere and who is in the last year of his contract and will leave the following offseason for no compensation. Help me see the logic in that.

Am I completly comfortable with Campbell being one play away from being the starter, no. But I don't believe Ramsey is capable of leading the team to the Super Bowl in the same scenario either. I think the Redskins will bring in Todd Collins in the offseason (free agent, been with Saunders in KC for years) to be the #3 QB but in the case of an early season-ending injury to Brunell would be able to step in and run the offense if Campbell falls on his face.

So your solution is todd collins? So you are admitting you have no faith in Campbell?

So we would be 1 play away from a player who has never gotten himself off the bench in Collins? So basically what you are saying is Ramsey can't do the job, but a journeyman backup can? Now I ask you what do you base that on???????????

So what if he leaves without compensation, who would want a useless QB anyway? According to you, he's not better than Todd Collins, explain to me why the Chiefs are willing to let a gem like that walk away without compensation?

It's not like we have been a drafting machine after the 1st rd anyway.

So basically I am to surmise that you believe that BIG TIME TODD COLLINS, and JASON I HAVE NEVER PLAYED A DOWN IN THE NFL CAMPBELL are better option's as the #2 than Ramsey?

No plans for Ramsey? Hasen't Gibbs said time and again how important Ramsey is to the Skins? He has stated many times that the second most important player on any team is the backup QB. Yea Todd Collins as our starter, WONDERFUL!

[offiss]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Yeah, I guess being a Superbowl MVP is no indication that you could lead a talented team to the Superbowl. :yeahright

Your point being???????????? :confused:

[dmek25]

isnt this about ramsey and rivers?

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by dmek25

isnt this about ramsey and rivers?

It was, but Rivers was consumed by question 3. Campbell, Humphreys, and Rypien have all tried to come off the bench to compete.

Ramsey remains.....