US Infects Guatemalans With Syphilis During 1940s Experiments

[wilsowilso]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Sure, as a society, the US has plenty of black marks in its history - slavery, our treatment of the native Americans, our colonization of the Philipines, our treatment of Japanese-Americans during WWII, etc. We also have much on the other side of the ledger - a civil war to end slavery, the civil rights movement, our opposition of tyrany in various forms throughout history, etc. They are all part of the US's "body of work".

Again, in history, admitting that we are seriously flawed in our practice, I challenge you to find any other country that has done more to promote, provide and protect individual human rights and the rule of law than the US.

This is such a great way to describe our country.

The only way.

Thanks.

[budw38]

[QUOTE=firstdown;835168]Two of the links are talking about the late 70s early 80s.[/QUOTE
Yes , some things still exist today Racists target black soccer players - Washington Times , much of it sickening .

[Hog1]

Nice work Joe......

[hooskins]

I think a few years ago, when Samuel Eto'o of Inter Milan had bananas thrown at him while playing Lazio, an Italian soccer team. Lazio has a regular skin-head fan section in their stadium and they boo their own black players.

As a follower of soccer, this sort of thing is very common and occurs all the time. Racism is much more deep rooted and prevalent throughout Europe.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I think a few years ago, when Samuel Eto'o of Inter Milan had bananas thrown at him while playing Lazio, an Italian soccer team. Lazio has a regular skin-head fan section in their stadium and they boo their own black players.

As a follower of soccer, this sort of thing is very common and occurs all the time. Racism is much more deep rooted and prevalent throughout Europe.

I'm a West Ham United fan and most of the really foul verbal abuse aimed at black players slowed after Ozzie Ardiles and Ricoardo Villa played for Spurs. It gave people another group to focus their hate on.

I enjoyed the terrace humor but the racism is and will always be utterly retarded.

One of my favorite chants from back in the day was "Who ate all the pies" at Gascoigne when he was a chubby bastard. We'd also pelt him with Mars bars (Milky Way in the US). More modern examples are "There's only two Andy Goram's" (instead of "There's only one Andty Goram" as is traditional) as he was diagnosed as schizophrenic.

Anyone else have an example of terrace humor that they'd like to share?

[firstdown]

Is soccer really a good sport to use as an example of hate. It looks to me as they all hate each other about the same.

youtube soccer fights - Bing Videos


Even the fans hate each other and I cannot see that they care about a persons skin color.

youtube soccer fans fighting - Bing Videos

[RedskinRat]

There's a certain fascist element to the players too:



This is Paulo di Canio getting his fans all jiggy. Idiot.

[hooskins]

FD there are fights in all sports between players and fans. The brawl at the Palace in the NBA, for example. I see videos each week of NFL fans mauling each other and wasn't one shot after a preseason game this year?

Be honest with your posts. Are you dismissing soccer as an example because you truly feel it's not fair to use a reflection of racism or is your personal anti-soccer bias impacting your opinion? Based on your generalizing nature/tone of your post, I would suspect the latter.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by hooskins

FD there are fights in all sports between players and fans. The brawl at the Palace in the NBA, for example. I see videos each week of NFL fans mauling each other and wasn't one shot after a preseason game this year?

Be honest with your posts. Are you dismissing soccer as an example because you truly feel it's not fair to use a reflection of racism or is your personal anti-soccer bias impacting your opinion? Based on your generalizing nature/tone of your post, I would suspect the latter.

Your right you do see fights in all sports but you don't see the fans in packs roaming around looking to fight other fans they hate. Its not a generalization its just what I see in the sport. Hell thats the only thing about soccer I like to watch.

[firstdown]

Like this.

Soccer Fans Wars - YouTube

[Alvin Walton]

Put me down as a soccer hatter.
More boring than baseball.

[firstdown]

Soccer does have the best fights when the hate gets too strong.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Soccer does have the best fights when the hate gets too strong.

Certainly true in the late '70's when I indulged but once the Police got all high-tech the air went out of organized crowd violence.

Now the games are locked down and crowd violence is sporadic at best.

I'd recommend you invent a time machine, go back to the '70's and visit Upton Park or The Den and enjoy a Millwall Vs. WHU game. Any 'rivalry' game would work, I can personally recommend this fixture though.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Again, every country is made of humans and, as such, each may be "redeemed". The Germans have redeemed themselves in many ways and struggle with it still. This transformation occurred, however, after the US and its allies spent considerable blood and treasure destroying the prior militiristic society and then, through the Marshall Plan, spent massive amounts of money rebuilding our former enemy's economy. Russia's transformation came about after a long costly cold war in which the US opposed the dictataorial oligarchy of the Soviet Union. Without such constant opposition from the US, I would suggest that the Soviet Union and its disregard for individual human rights would still be a force for oppression in this world. See my notes on China below.


Okay. I don't disagree with that apologies should be just that apologies without qualification. I don't think the "addition and subtraction" is as rampant as you seem to think. I believe that, as a nation, we are more likely to admit to our faults than many others. Sometimes, to a fault. We will probably just have to agree to disagree on this one.



I can. Mainly because, but for the intervention of the US - Japan, Germany and Korea would not have been transformed. As for China, it's human rights violations are legion and the crimes it commits against its own citizens make a comparision to the US laughable.

- Germany's and Japan's society's didn't just wake up one morning and say - "Hey, let's tansform ourselves." Transformation occurred after their militiristic societies were beaten, their homelands occupied by the US, and their governments were remade during occupation along democratic lines by the US (in Japan's case) and the Western Allies (In Germany's case - specifically West Germany).

Korea? Which Korea? The one currently under a communist dictator or the one that the US and its Allies spent blood and treasure to preserve from North Korean aggression? But for US intervention and American lives spent, there would be no S. Korea to transform.

CHINA??? Are you seriously holding them up as a "transformed society"? Please:
China Human Rights | Amnesty International USA

China and Human Rights — Global Issues


Sure, as a society, the US has plenty of black marks in its history - slavery, our treatment of the native Americans, our colonization of the Philipines, our treatment of Japanese-Americans during WWII, etc. We also have much on the other side of the ledger - a civil war to end slavery, the civil rights movement, our opposition of tyrany in various forms throughout history, etc. They are all part of the US's "body of work".

Again, in history, admitting that we are seriously flawed in our practice, I challenge you to find any other country that has done more to promote, provide and protect individual human rights and the rule of law than the US.

I think it is equally important that we point out that the U.S. and it's allies were directly responsible for the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. Throughout their history the Germans were strong people but rarely militaristic society. They were defensive brutes at worst and philosophers at best. The west and it's imperialism was equally to blame for the rise of Japanese Militarism.

It's one thing to admit to your faults, it's another to justify your faults and only correct them after decades if ever. That is what this country does more often than not and I think that's slightly better than Chinese not admitting to its faults. Remember, the China transitioned from aristocracy to Communism fairly recently and in that process the communist pointed out the faults of the aristocracy. Communism is ultimately self-defeating the piper will be calling for the communists one of these days and the faults of the communist will similarly be pointed out. The same thing can be said about the Russians.

I was speaking of South Korea. You had people that wanted to be free and people who wanted communism. Like I said, communism is ultimately self-defeating but it's definitely nice to have altruistic help from the U.S. Hopefully that desire to help will be extend to the North Koreans one of these days.

China's human rights is just as laughable as that of the United States but you wouldn't know it talking to Americans. Human rights is somehow extended to torture and political imprisonment of dissenters in the U.S. but not to justified torture, opportunity and equality. How many people are in prison in United States again and how many innocent people are falsely imprisoned? How many egregious laws are there in the books simply because it serves a political purpose certain kinds of people?

Historically speaking we are comparing countries/societies who have existed for millenniums, lack diversity and were not found based on the ideals of equality, freedom and democracy with a country that has been round centuries, diverse, and found based on the aforementioned qualities. Obviously these countries can't adapt to change as rapidly as the U.S. but if we compare which countries have gone through a significant change for the better over their life span I don't believe the U.S. wins which is the point I was making.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by saden1

I think it is equally important that we point out that the U.S. and it's allies were directly responsible for the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. Throughout their history the Germans were strong people but rarely militaristic society. They were defensive brutes at worst and philosophers at best. The west and it's imperialism was equally to blame for the rise of Japanese Militarism.<SNIP>

Please post proof of those two statement, they are idiotic.

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