08' Mercedes C-Class v.s. '08 Infiniti G35 Sedan

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Is that legit?
I don't see how it can do that for so long? I suppose if oil got in the headers it could work, but I would imagine it would flame out before it got to the tail pipe and would come out as smoke.
Any mechanics out there that could shed some light?

100% legit. It is caused by a) the particulate filter in the exhaust and b) too much fuel getting through the injectors and into the filter.

The way this is supposed to work is...
1) the particulate filter catches a bunch of exhaust junk (for emissions purposes)
2) ECM releases (via injectors) a specified amount of raw fuel into exhaust
3) fuel gets caught in filter and raises the temp of the collected junk from (1) so that it burns off (without combustion)

But, in the case of these Fords, the faulty injectors released too much fuel which caused the temperature to rise to a point where combustion (read flames) occurred.

Ford actually halted sales of these trucks while they worked on a fix.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You know...now that you mention it, I have never heard anything bad about a focus (other than personal opinions about power and style). I haven't heard anything bad about a Fusion either, but to be fair, I don't know a single person that owns one, or even rented one. All other Ford vehicles I have strong negative opinions of due to several people / vehicles and my own experience with Ford.

Ford is really doing a good job with their development lately. Most of their intros over the last 5-7 years have been very solid cars. The Focus is a good car and really has a lot of value for the money and everyone I know is almost raving about the Fusion. If GM could put some cars out like Ford the perception of US cars would change. It would take a while for a new image to take hold but it would change. I think any of the well rated Fords are good bets.

[dall-assblows]

who cares? i cant afford either, thats for sure!

[MTK]

The Focus and Fusion both get great reviews from Consumer Reports.

[Schneed10]

Buster, that story you told about the Toyota Avalon's engine seems to indicate the Toyota engineers are complete and utter morons. It's as if you think Elmo and Big Bird built the car.

That story is so sensational that it can't possibly be true. Just about every test you see done by consumer reports consistently rates Toyotas amongst the most reliable out there. By the way, I'm not a car enthusiast or anything, but you have to give the nod to consumer reports when it comes to testing just about anything. Their methods are precise, well-funded, and extremely scientific.

But I was really talking about comfort anyway. My father has an Avalon, I swear it's like riding in a battleship (assuming battleships have really big and comfortable seats with tons of leg room).

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Buster, that story you told about the Toyota Avalon's engine seems to indicate the Toyota engineers are complete and utter morons. It's as if you think Elmo and Big Bird built the car.

That story is so sensational that it can't possibly be true. Just about every test you see done by consumer reports consistently rates Toyotas amongst the most reliable out there. By the way, I'm not a car enthusiast or anything, but you have to give the nod to consumer reports when it comes to testing just about anything. Their methods are precise, well-funded, and extremely scientific.

But I was really talking about comfort anyway. My father has an Avalon, I swear it's like riding in a battleship (assuming battleships have really big and comfortable seats with tons of leg room).

On some forums and by the Toyota rep she spoke to on the phone, this is far from a fluke/ It has happened to a lot of Avalons and Toyota knows about it, but they have not and will not do a recall. Hopefully they'll fix the future ones, but if you have one of the wet-vac versions, you'll be taking your chances with it. I'm sure it IS a comfortable car. For the price, it better be.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by Buster

On some forums and by the Toyota rep she spoke to on the phone, this is far from a fluke/ It has happened to a lot of Avalons and Toyota knows about it, but they have not and will not do a recall. Hopefully they'll fix the future ones, but if you have one of the wet-vac versions, you'll be taking your chances with it. I'm sure it IS a comfortable car. For the price, it better be.

For the life of me I cannot find any other occurrences of this. I searched all the big Toyota sites (most of them I lurk in anyway). I'm not yet convinced that this is a real problem. The evidence is anecdotal at best right now.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

For the life of me I cannot find any other occurrences of this. I searched all the big Toyota sites (most of them I lurk in anyway). I'm not yet convinced that this is a real problem. The evidence is anecdotal at best right now.

dude I have been checking too. It makes no sense. If any decent amout of water gets into the piston chamber the piston is going through the block due to the pressure.

[mredskins]

LB you probably don't have a lot room to move on their price. the new Accord is going to be hot and the dealers know this. They may take $500. I bet tough if you want a really good deal you could get a new 07 for a steal but it would be the old model.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by mredskins

LB you probably don't have a lot room to move on their price. the new Accord is going to be hot and the dealers know this. They may take $500. I bet tough if you want a really good deal you could get a new 07 for a steal but it would be the old model.

I know it'll be tough. The original MSRP was $26,900. They took $500 off the top. I told the dealer they also had a $250 coupon on their website. He neglected to mention that. I'm looking at a price of $25,000 to $25,500. Just wondering if that's realistic or not.

I don't really need a new car. I'm just tired of driving a stick shift and I would really like a sedan.

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

I know it'll be tough. The original MSRP was $26,900. They took $500 off the top. I told the dealer they also had a $250 coupon on their website. He neglected to mention that. I'm looking at a price of $25,000 to $25,500. Just wondering if that's realistic or not.

I don't really need a new car. I'm just tired of driving a stick shift and I would really like a sedan.

There is a dealer in Atlanta (Mike Patton Honda) selling them for what you want to pay. Might be worth the trip for the savings.

eBay Motors: Honda : Accord (item 200160055067 end time Oct-12-07 15:22:55 PDT)

http://www.mikepattonhonda.com

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

I know it'll be tough. The original MSRP was $26,900. They took $500 off the top. I told the dealer they also had a $250 coupon on their website. He neglected to mention that. I'm looking at a price of $25,000 to $25,500. Just wondering if that's realistic or not.

I don't really need a new car. I'm just tired of driving a stick shift and I would really like a sedan.

Don't mention ANY discounts until you come to an agreement on price, then after they agree, then you give them the coupon's / discounts. Those discounts / coupons are YOURS, not their's. They don't pay for those discounts, the Honda company does.
I'm telling you, you can get it for $500 over invoice with little issues. Just remember they pay A LOT less for that car...invoice is not actually what they pay even though they will lie and tell you that. They likely pay about 3k less for it. That's why you will see sales pitches of "buy any new car $500 or $1000 under invoice". They are just trying to get them off the lot, and are willing to take a small cut, but they are still making a profit.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Don't mention ANY discounts until you come to an agreement on price, then after they agree, then you give them the coupon's / discounts. Those discounts / coupons are YOURS, not their's. They don't pay for those discounts, the Honda company does.
I'm telling you, you can get it for $500 over invoice with little issues. Just remember they pay A LOT less for that car...invoice is not actually what they pay even though they will lie and tell you that. They likely pay about 3k less for it. That's why you will see sales pitches of "buy any new car $500 or $1000 under invoice". They are just trying to get them off the lot, and are willing to take a small cut, but they are still making a profit.

OMG, they asked me a gabillion times about my trade. I was like... no, we're going to talk car price and that's all. I know it's a major mistake to talk about trade, car payment, etc. before you've nailed down a price.

I've heard that you should only offer $500 over invoice, but I've dealt with too many dealers around here that won't budge off the MSRP. It's crazy.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

OMG, they asked me a gabillion times about my trade. I was like... no, we're going to talk car price and that's all. I know it's a major mistake to talk about trade, car payment, etc. before you've nailed down a price.

I've heard that you should only offer $500 over invoice, but I've dealt with too many dealers around here that won't budge off the MSRP. It's crazy.

They will if you "sell them" like I have mentioned. No one pays MSRP unless they are dumb. You need to own the situation. You can do it. If you know how like you said, you can get it. It's simple to them, either you buy their car at your price, or you don't buy from them. What's the choice?

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Just remember they pay A LOT less for that car...invoice is not actually what they pay even though they will lie and tell you that. They likely pay about 3k less for it.

I know you want to believe that, but its not true. dealer holdback avgs 2% of invoice (ie 20k car = 400 bucks) and there' usually something called wholesale financial reserve, which usually equals about 1%. Some manufacturers are different, but this is the case with toyotas and hondas...



I always hated it when people came in and tried to act so sly and told me all about the business when they knew jack shit. One of the main reasons I left the business was that car buyers can turn into major dick-holes and will not allow honest salespeople to make a living.


Invioce DOES reflect the exact amount that the dealer strokes a check for, but they get refunded the amounts for holdback and financial reserve...

so its a deception, but you wouldn't believe how many people actually expect you to take a loss on a vehicle when they purchase one...



ladybrave, shop online and get a quote for what you want. dealing online will get you the best deal, and assure that you get the exact car you want without having to settle for something in someones inventory.

If you're not physically there looking at a new car (that isn't even what you had in mind in the first place) you have alot more bargaining chips.

use dealer's pricing against one another, but remember, the 2008 accord is a newly redesigned car, and hondas tend to sell for sticker when they first come out, even moreso than other manufacturers... you may have to wait a bit before you get your deal, but thats sometimes the price you pay to be the first on the block with the new toy.

if you get it for a few hundred bucks over invoice, you're doing great.

2008 Honda Accord optional equipment at Edmunds

edmunds is saying they're selling for sticker, but you may be able to find a deal at a mega volume store...