Simply put, FEMA sucks!!

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Buster

No, I just don't call him Hitler and blame EVERYTHING on him because I hate him and want him out of office.

If you look at facts instead of agendas, you'll see the blame for Katrina is spread all around but mostly the local and state government was at fault.

The position of President doesn't even have legal jurisdiction to take over responsibilities that state and the federal Constitution have outlined as state responsibilities. Even if President Bush had wanted to push them out of the way and take over, he couldn't legally. He did what he could by making suggestions to get people out, but that's really all he was allowed to do. Look at Florida, they have 20 hurricanes a year and aren't in chaos by one in New Orleans that didn't even hit them directly.

Sign up for a civics course somewhere, it might help you understand. You can't rely on media reports for facts.

I was kidding. I agree with you. My sarcasm doesn't carry well over the net usually. I should know better.

On a different note in the same vein. Is it me or does someone basically throwing bombs about a subject totally rule the political landscape right now? I say this because That Guy, who isn't here right now but I hope he comes back and participates ome more, basically is obviously really anti-Bush. Which most of us can understand. Things are screwded up everywhere and blame lays with him on some. But when people make statements followed by logical and reasonable rebuttals and the original person making the statements justs yells and screams about it don't they invalidate themselves? That Guy come back and continue this!

[dmek25]

back in 1998( or somewhere around there) pres. clinton tried to establish a federal office that is now known as homeland security. the republican run congress laughed in his face saying there is no need to waste anymore tax dollars on something we dont need. the rest, as they say, is history

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by dmek25

back in 1998( or somewhere around there) pres. clinton tried to establish a federal office that is now known as homeland security. the republican run congress laughed in his face saying there is no need to waste anymore tax dollars on something we dont need. the rest, as they say, is history

Clinton was also the President who wouldn't let the CIA or NSA share information with the FBI about a terrorist if they had evidence in hand that would stop something catostrophic. They just had to sit back and let it happen. Their hands where tied. I wonder how well his DHS would have worked.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

back in 1998( or somewhere around there) pres. clinton tried to establish a federal office that is now known as homeland security. the republican run congress laughed in his face saying there is no need to waste anymore tax dollars on something we dont need. the rest, as they say, is history

Do you have any link to this or know what the bills number or name was. The only reason I ask is because I have never heard of this and with all the mud slinging and blamming after 9/11 I think that we would have herd of this over and over again.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Do you have any link to this or know what the bills number or name was. The only reason I ask is because I have never heard of this and with all the mud slinging and blamming after 9/11 I think that we would have herd of this over and over again.

All he would've had to do was fire Gorelick. She prevented data sharing between the agencies. The fact that she was on that 09-11 Commission instead of being investigated BY them was a joke.

[dmek25]

as far as iraq, there is still places that pre strike had electricity, that are still dark. my whole beef with iraq is lets take care of our own here in the us before we branch out to help others

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by dmek25

as far as iraq, there is still places that pre strike had electricity, that are still dark. my whole beef with iraq is lets take care of our own here in the us before we branch out to help others

Isolationist?

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Isolationist?

Yep.


We're the world's superpower. With the power comes responsibility whether you like it or not. Hussein was on his way to being the next Hitler. He had already killed about half a million people for no good reason at all.

Also, despite what you might've heard on the news, al Qaeda WAS in Iraq before us. Qusay Hussein (the now dead son who liked raping women in front of families and chopping off arms) offered Zarqawi medical aid when he was injured in some little Jihad battle in Afghanistan. Between the UN's Oil-for-Food program that gave Hussein cash "for food" in exchange for oil, which Saddam used on WEAPONS (regular and chemical)...along with their relationship with terrorists who had vowed to kill all Americans...we needed to put an end to it all before they did something to make 09-11 look like an insect bite. We have satellite images of WMDs being moved, probably to Syria, before we went in. If we didn't have to follow UN "let's warn them for 12 years and play nice" tactics, he wouldn't have had time to move them out. Saddam buried his fighter jets for crying out loud, which we found...so what's to say he couldn't bury a few little nuke warheads too? We've also found chemical weapons labs that went unreported. We WILL find the rest of the WMDs but at least the madman is out of power and won't be killing women and children or supplying terrorists with weapons any more.

We tried to ignore the war that was started against us in 1993 for WAY too long. Terrorists were targeting Americans all over the world all of the time, from the USS Cole bombing, to several embassy bombings, night club and hotel bombings, the WTC in 1995 and 2001, the Pentagon...who knows what would be next.

Ignoring them WON'T make them go away. Bill Clinton taught us that lesson.

[FRPLG]

Look I voted for Bush. I voted for Bush at the time because I believed in him. I voted for Bush because I agree with the basic ideals of conservatism (which apparently aren't obeserved by our elected conservatives. that's a whole other argument). I now have little appreciation for him and the job he has done on many things but I also think he gets a totally raw deal on a lot of things. The political temperature in this country is now one of attack and destroy. If a democrat had been in power for the last 2 terms he would have been attacked on whatever issues came about in the same way Bush has been. It is just terrible the way our political process has been hijacked by spcieal issuers who know how advance their agendas regardless of tactic and truth. The truth is that Bush has done a poor job in some ways and a great job in some ways. Just like every president he has success and failures. I have no problem pointing out his failures. I could make a list. But I also try to be even handed and objective about analyzing and realize that this situation in NO isn't "HIS" fault. It is the collective fault of a very large number of people including him.

[dmek25]

i agree with that statement.although the large part of blame will always lie with the commander and chief. its just like if the redskins really stink it up, coach gibbs bares the brunt of why? is it justified? sometimes yes, sometimes no. we will agree to disagree on pres bush and his croonies are doing a good job.

[FRPLG]

That Guy.

In this thread about FEMA you have said:

I'd say the drastic mismanagement that got a lot of people killed unnecessarily was pretty extreme too, since, you know, their entire job is to prevent that.

This was a direct response to a statement about FEMA. FEMA had nothing to do with the evacuation or the deaths of "millions" of people. They just didn't as several others point out without rebuttal.

or that they should have a civil engineer or logistics guy in charge of FEMA instead of some clueless crony.

This goes along the path of blaming FEMA for the actual deaths associated with the Hurricane. Unless of course you meant an engineer would have helped somehow manage the money doling out. I think you weren't meaning that though.

FEMA needed to step in an over rule the idiot mayor who also had a huge hand in making a bad situation much worse

As stated by others and myself they have no legal authority to do this. This again shows that you thought FEMA should have tried to get people out when in fact they simply have no legal way to do so.

someone qualified could have done better... like with 2 weeks of info from the local experts (levy workers and meteorologists) at least try to organize a real evacuation.

In the context of the converstaion I am pretty sure you were again referring to FEMA.

then i said:

As cpayne said. If you have an opinion know ALL the facts and facets as best you can. Uninformed debate is worthless. The world runs on opinions so it is our job to have the right info to form them correctly. To me your statement shows a general lack of respect for Bush(understood given many OTHER issues) and a lack of knowledge on the subject. Blaming Bush or FEMA for the evacuation situation is like blaming Bush for the pothole in front of your house.

Which was meant to say that your statements blaming things on FEMA and/or Bush for the lack of a solid evacuation showed a lack of understanding towards what the responsibilties of the various parties being discussed were. It also was meant to say that lack of knowledge on this one issue works subversively towards your point since it really undermines it greatly. Yes i did not specifically point out that I felt you had a lack of knowledge on this one point but I think when you have one huge gap of understanding on an issue it works to invalidate your entire opinion. How this was uncivil is completely beyond me. Sorry for thinking that you making statements that have no solid basis shows a lack of knowledge. It wasn't meant to infer you have no "f***ing clue" what you are talking about. In fact I am pretty sure I never said that.

Your response to this statement was out of line. It was immature and IT was the uncivil part of this thread. For someone with a long posting history here and a very good standing you should be able to see where you have gone down the wrong path in this thread.

[dmek25]

in other words fema is a government agency with absolutely no power? come on, if pres bush and fema wanted new orleans evacuated, it would have happened. im surprised that wewhite hasnt chimed in yet because i think if the same thing was going to occur in w's hometown, it probably would have been handled alittle differently

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by dmek25

in other words fema is a government agency with absolutely no power? come on, if pres bush and fema wanted new orleans evacuated, it would have happened. im surprised that wewhite hasnt chimed in yet because i think if the same thing was going to occur in w's hometown, it probably would have been handled alittle differently

If the federal governement had evacuated New Orleans (against the wishes of both the mayor and the governor) and nothing catostrophic happened I can probably guarantee you that right we would be in the middle of the biggest Supreme Court battle this country has ever seen.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by dmek25

in other words fema is a government agency with absolutely no power? come on, if pres bush and fema wanted new orleans evacuated, it would have happened. im surprised that wewhite hasnt chimed in yet because i think if the same thing was going to occur in w's hometown, it probably would have been handled alittle differently

We have laws in this country that democrats love to scream and yell about when Bush does something that amounts to the same thing. When he and the administration start collecting phone call information (to protect us they say) it isn't ok but when NO and the local/state government won't evacuate a below sea-level city in the face of a catastrophic hurricane he is then uppose to break the law then? Sure Bush could have pulled some federal authority out of his ass and made it happened and then what? From now on it is the job of federal government to protect us from oursleves and our unwillingness to take care of ourselves? People died because they local governemt and state government didn't do THEIR JOB. Not because Bush didn't illegally do their job for them.

[That Guy]

FRPLG:

you went point for point, and except for one issue, every single one contains you making (wrong) assumptions about what i actually said. thus when you're trying to call me out on things i didn't say but you think i did, it's a bit hard to take.

and if you read about the charter they actually do cover civil defense and disaster preparedness, which you've been vehement in denoucing:


wikipedia:

September 11th, 2001, President Bush created the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to better coordinate among the different federal agencies that deal with law enforcement, disaster preparedness and recovery, border protection and civil defense. FEMA was absorbed into DHS as of 2003. As a result, FEMA became part of the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate of DHS, and employs more than 2,600 full time employees. In September 2003, Michael D. Brown, FEMA's director and DHS Undersecretary, warned that the shift would make a mockery of FEMA's new motto, "A Nation Prepared,"...