Fresh Start Political Thread

SunnySide · 07-21-2021, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...ipeline-500334

Good article about the pipeline gift to Russia. So much for libs ever crying about Russia ever again, no more…if the previous administration had even thought about this the meltdown would have been amazing. The previous administration was head and tales tougher on Russia than Biden’s been.

Good informative article, thank you Chico.

Lots of moving parts and competing interests.

1. Sanctions werent stopping the pipeline which is almost done completion anyway

2. Germany really wanted it and I do think we had to make ally amends

3. Sucks for Ukraine as apparently they will be circumvented and wont get a transit fee

4. Makes Germany and western Europe even more energy dependent on Russia

5. Cheap natural gas from Russia means no incentives to develop green energy and energy alternatives

My take away, it seemed it was going to happen no matter what so we chose to work with an ally in Germany.

This seems to be a though out diplomatic foreign relation decision.

Adults in charge.

Chico23231 · 07-21-2021, 12:43 PM

Lol…as bad faith as they come which typing it I guess this hides the embarrassment of “Biden would be tougher on Russia” campaign lie. No SS the pipeline wouldn’t get done without lifting sanctions, Biden lifted those. Like I said, don’t ever cry about Russia again. Trump was tougher.

Russian owning Biden administration ala Obama part 2. Continuing Russian hacks with on infrastructure (I’m sure you stand with Biden not to do anything about the China hacks as well) and giving them a crowing energy win while weakening Ukraine and advising them not to speak out about it. That’s pretty terrible

Also, don’t whine about false climate narratives when you agree with a pipeline which goes against green energy strategies against non compliant governments.

If Trump would have allowed the pipeline completion we know what you would have said…more Russian collusion hoaxes…

SunnySide · 07-21-2021, 01:16 PM

Total project was 1,230 kilometers of underwater pipeline.

As of June 3, they had 100 kilometers left to build.

87.7% complete when Biden lifted sanctions.

Seems like the pipeline was going to be a reality whether we kept sanctions or not.

Anyways ... (by the way .. the russia hacking group wiped itself after Bidens phone call to Putin ...plus I think we hacked their power grid as a tit for tat)

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...ss-2021-06-03/

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...-splits-europe

punch it in · 07-21-2021, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Lol…as bad faith as they come which typing it I guess this hides the embarrassment of “Biden would be tougher on Russia” campaign lie. No SS the pipeline wouldn’t get done without lifting sanctions, Biden lifted those. Like I said, don’t ever cry about Russia again. Trump was tougher.

Russian owning Biden administration ala Obama part 2. Continuing Russian hacks with on infrastructure (I’m sure you stand with Biden not to do anything about the China hacks as well) and giving them a crowing energy win while weakening Ukraine and advising them not to speak out about it. That’s pretty terrible

Also, don’t whine about false climate narratives when you agree with a pipeline which goes against green energy strategies against non compliant governments.

If Trump would have allowed the pipeline completion we know what you would have said…more Russian collusion hoaxes…

So fun watching you grasp for straws. And its only been 6 months. In 7 years what is it going to be? The color of his suit? Oh wait that was already a far right battle cry. Well im sure it will be something either petty or twisted like your pipeline dilemma.

punch it in · 07-21-2021, 01:35 PM

How bout we talk more about the 179th person Trump surrounded himself with who is going to jail? I know. I know. Pure coincidence.

Giantone · 07-21-2021, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punch it in

How bout we talk more about the 179th person Trump surrounded himself with who is going to jail? I know. I know. Pure coincidence.

LOL, you know chico will ignore. It's what he does .

Chico23231 · 07-21-2021, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Total project was 1,230 kilometers of underwater pipeline.

As of June 3, they had 100 kilometers left to build.

87.7% complete when Biden lifted sanctions.

Seems like the pipeline was going to be a reality whether we kept sanctions or not.

Anyways ... (by the way .. the russia hacking group wiped itself after Bidens phone call to Putin ...plus I think we hacked their power grid as a tit for tat)

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...ss-2021-06-03/

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...-splits-europe

Your right Biden lift sanctions to give a Russia major energy win while past administrations refused

You really have no footing with tough on Russia nor green energy narratives. These are both big Ls to those.

Chico23231 · 07-21-2021, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punch it in

So fun watching you grasp for straws. And its only been 6 months. In 7 years what is it going to be? The color of his suit? Oh wait that was already a far right battle cry. Well im sure it will be something either petty or twisted like your pipeline dilemma.

Honest question, what’s Biden mental state in 7 years?

punch it in · 07-21-2021, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Honest question, what’s Biden mental state in 7 years?

Honest answer…an improvement on our last presidents and its not even close. Thats such a right wing straw grasping point. All the idiotic things that came out of Trumps mouth, and because Joe is gray (he too could die his hair and get a spray tan I suppose) and not the most eloquent speaker he is somehow mentally challenged? Come on Chico. Any psychiatrist in the world will tell you Trump isn’t playing with a full deck but that didn’t/doesn’t matter? Joe slurs his words and he is incapable of running the country? Let them both take psych evaluations. My money is on Joe.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...fessor-1467425

Actually read the article, it is one of millions, and tell me you do not see it? He thinks like a child. It is /was not only embarrassing but dangerous.

nonniey · 07-21-2021, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Good informative article, thank you Chico.

Lots of moving parts and competing interests.

1. Sanctions werent stopping the pipeline which is almost done completion anyway

2. Germany really wanted it and I do think we had to make ally amends

3. Sucks for Ukraine as apparently they will be circumvented and wont get a transit fee

4. Makes Germany and western Europe even more energy dependent on Russia

5. Cheap natural gas from Russia means no incentives to develop green energy and energy alternatives

My take away, it seemed it was going to happen no matter what so we chose to work with an ally in Germany.

This seems to be a though out diplomatic foreign relation decision.

Adults in charge.

There still is no defending the Keystone pipeline decision. That was straight on virtue signaling that actually hurt the environment (That dirty-crude will now primarily be exported and refined to dirtier refineries in China and to a lesser extent transported in more polluting trains (Much more damaging than pipelines) to the US).

SunnySide · 07-22-2021, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonniey

There still is no defending the Keystone pipeline decision. That was straight on virtue signaling that actually hurt the environment (That dirty-crude will now primarily be exported and refined to dirtier refineries in China and to a lesser extent transported in more polluting trains (Much more damaging than pipelines) to the US).

Idk .. importing sand oil from Canada? Do we have a need for more oil and oil sources? Seems like the only people who would benefit are the Oil Companies. If oil was some scarce needed commodity, itd be a no brainer.

We are already extracting oil out of all types of things .. and it does cause greater environmental waste. How does it help us? it creates some temporary jobs .. at the cost of the environment and having pipelines running through the countryside and potential for future leaks and issues.

End of the day .. that sand oil deposit is going to mined whether Keystone goes through or not. I just dont see any pros to it outside of temporary job creation .. at the expense of the environment. Ill side with environment over the oil industry all day.

----

edit - are you saying the Oil Companies would have limited or reduced their crude oil by whatever amount of this sand oil came through the pipeline? That would certainly be something to consider but seems wishful thinking. Do you have an article for that?

Im just guessing but id guess they keep crude going as strong as they could (market allowing) then plus this sand oil. Not that sand oil would reduce crude production. Itd be your normal crude plus sand oil.

(seems most environment damage would happen in Canada where it would be mined on sight .. unless a pipe leaked in Montana or something)

nonniey · 07-22-2021, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Idk .. importing sand oil from Canada? Do we have a need for more oil and oil sources? Seems like the only people who would benefit are the Oil Companies. If oil was some scarce needed commodity, itd be a no brainer.

We are already extracting oil out of all types of things .. and it does cause greater environmental waste. How does it help us? it creates some temporary jobs .. at the cost of the environment and having pipelines running through the countryside and potential for future leaks and issues.

End of the day .. that sand oil deposit is going to mined whether Keystone goes through or not. I just dont see any pros to it outside of temporary job creation .. at the expense of the environment. Ill side with environment over the oil industry all day.

----

edit - are you saying the Oil Companies would have limited or reduced their crude oil by whatever amount of this sand oil came through the pipeline? That would certainly be something to consider but seems wishful thinking. Do you have an article for that?

Im just guessing but id guess they keep crude going as strong as they could (market allowing) then plus this sand oil. Not that sand oil would reduce crude production. Itd be your normal crude plus sand oil.

(seems most environment damage would happen in Canada where it would be mined on sight .. unless a pipe leaked in Montana or something)

You provided your own answer - "End of the day .. that sand oil deposit is going to mined whether Keystone goes through or not."

US refining is the cleanest on on Earth, but now most of this oil is going to be refined outside the US (Mostly in China). The amount that is refined inside the US will be transported on trains which are more polluting than pipelines. So at the end of day The US makes less money and has fewer jobs and more pollution is produced than would have been if the pipeline had been built. What else would you call that but virtue signaling?

SunnySide · 07-23-2021, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nonniey

You provided your own answer - "End of the day .. that sand oil deposit is going to mined whether Keystone goes through or not."

US refining is the cleanest on on Earth, but now most of this oil is going to be refined outside the US (Mostly in China). The amount that is refined inside the US will be transported on trains which are more polluting than pipelines. So at the end of day The US makes less money and has fewer jobs and more pollution is produced than would have been if the pipeline had been built. What else would you call that but virtue signaling?

Youre right ... more sand oil will de shipped to China and id imagine our refineries are much cleaner than China.

Giantone · 07-28-2021, 11:55 AM

This is a really good question.....................

https://news.yahoo.com/gop-defend-no...233600160.html

NBC News
If GOP won't defend the Capitol, the Constitution or themselves, what do they stand for?

NBC News
If GOP won't defend the Capitol, the Constitution or themselves, what do they stand for?
Jonathan Allen
Tue, July 27, 2021, 7:36 PM
In this article:

WASHINGTON — Aquilino Gonell, a sergeant with the U.S. Capitol Police force, testified Tuesday that he put his duty to the Constitution ahead of the interests of his wife and son when he fought rioters at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

"This is how I'm going to die," he recalled thinking as his body was crushed in a violent scrum, "defending this entrance."

Of course, Gonell and other law enforcement officers were defending symbols of the republic that day — the Capitol, the Constitution and the sanctity of the ballot. But they were also safeguarding the physical security of the members of Congress, direct participants in republican governance, as well as then-Vice President Mike Pence.

It has been heartbreaking for Gonell and many of his colleagues on the Capitol and D.C. Metro police forces to watch Republican leaders in Congress pretend they weren't under threat.

"It was devastating and demoralizing for people, whatever the party is, to call this attack and continue to minimize it like nothing happened. It was an attempted coup that was happening in the Capitol that day," Gonell said in emotional testimony given under questioning by Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., who also fought back tears.

"We were fighting for our lives — to give you guys a chance to go home to your family, to escape. And now the same people we helped, the same people who — we gave them borrowed time to get to safety — now they're attacking us. They're attacking our characters," he continued. "It's a disgrace."

For months, Republican lawmakers have attacked the police officers who defended their lives so they can defend a former president who put them at risk, and they continue to do so.

BaltimoreSkins · 07-30-2021, 12:38 PM

https://www.democracynow.org/2021/7/...heather_bresch

Here is my take on this for my conservative brothers here. I know you don't think dems get shit on enough here. I am pretty much hate all corporate politicians. Here we have a pharmaceutical plant in the U.S. employing 1,400 workers and paying them really ($31/hr vs an average of $17/hr). This should be pretty upsetting regardless of political affiliation. So why are national democrats being quiet on this? Well Joe Manchin is a moderate democrat in a state that has transitioned blue the last few decades. They can't lose that precarious seat in an already tight senate margin for votes so they are going to just let these people lose their jobs instead of doing the right thing.

07-21-2021, 12:43 PM	#557
Chico23231 Warpath Hall of Fame Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 34,419	Re: Fresh Start Political Thread Lol…as bad faith as they come which typing it I guess this hides the embarrassment of “Biden would be tougher on Russia” campaign lie. No SS the pipeline wouldn’t get done without lifting sanctions, Biden lifted those. Like I said, don’t ever cry about Russia again. Trump was tougher. Russian owning Biden administration ala Obama part 2. Continuing Russian hacks with on infrastructure (I’m sure you stand with Biden not to do anything about the China hacks as well) and giving them a crowing energy win while weakening Ukraine and advising them not to speak out about it. That’s pretty terrible Also, don’t whine about false climate narratives when you agree with a pipeline which goes against green energy strategies against non compliant governments. If Trump would have allowed the pipeline completion we know what you would have said…more Russian collusion hoaxes… __________________ My pronouns: King/Your ruler He Gets Us

07-21-2021, 01:16 PM	#558
SunnySide Playmaker Join Date: Sep 2019 Posts: 4,568	Re: Fresh Start Political Thread Total project was 1,230 kilometers of underwater pipeline. As of June 3, they had 100 kilometers left to build. 87.7% complete when Biden lifted sanctions. Seems like the pipeline was going to be a reality whether we kept sanctions or not. Anyways ... (by the way .. the russia hacking group wiped itself after Bidens phone call to Putin ...plus I think we hacked their power grid as a tit for tat) https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...ss-2021-06-03/ https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...-splits-europe

07-21-2021, 01:35 PM	#560
punch it in From a Land Down Under Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: toms river, nj Age: 53 Posts: 23,475	Re: Fresh Start Political Thread How bout we talk more about the 179th person Trump surrounded himself with who is going to jail? I know. I know. Pure coincidence.

07-28-2021, 11:55 AM	#569
Giantone Gamebreaker Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 13,949	Re: Fresh Start Political Thread This is a really good question..................... https://news.yahoo.com/gop-defend-no...233600160.html NBC News If GOP won't defend the Capitol, the Constitution or themselves, what do they stand for? NBC News If GOP won't defend the Capitol, the Constitution or themselves, what do they stand for? Jonathan Allen Tue, July 27, 2021, 7:36 PM In this article: WASHINGTON — Aquilino Gonell, a sergeant with the U.S. Capitol Police force, testified Tuesday that he put his duty to the Constitution ahead of the interests of his wife and son when he fought rioters at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6. "This is how I'm going to die," he recalled thinking as his body was crushed in a violent scrum, "defending this entrance." Of course, Gonell and other law enforcement officers were defending symbols of the republic that day — the Capitol, the Constitution and the sanctity of the ballot. But they were also safeguarding the physical security of the members of Congress, direct participants in republican governance, as well as then-Vice President Mike Pence. It has been heartbreaking for Gonell and many of his colleagues on the Capitol and D.C. Metro police forces to watch Republican leaders in Congress pretend they weren't under threat. "It was devastating and demoralizing for people, whatever the party is, to call this attack and continue to minimize it like nothing happened. It was an attempted coup that was happening in the Capitol that day," Gonell said in emotional testimony given under questioning by Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., who also fought back tears. "We were fighting for our lives — to give you guys a chance to go home to your family, to escape. And now the same people we helped, the same people who — we gave them borrowed time to get to safety — now they're attacking us. They're attacking our characters," he continued. "It's a disgrace." For months, Republican lawmakers have attacked the police officers who defended their lives so they can defend a former president who put them at risk, and they continue to do so. __________________ ....DISCLAIMER: All of my posts/threads are my expressed typed opinion and the reader is not to assume these comments are absolute fact, law, or truth unless otherwise stated in said post/thread.

07-30-2021, 12:38 PM	#570
BaltimoreSkins Pro Bowl Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Parkton, MD Posts: 5,676	Re: Fresh Start Political Thread https://www.democracynow.org/2021/7/...heather_bresch Here is my take on this for my conservative brothers here. I know you don't think dems get shit on enough here. I am pretty much hate all corporate politicians. Here we have a pharmaceutical plant in the U.S. employing 1,400 workers and paying them really ($31/hr vs an average of $17/hr). This should be pretty upsetting regardless of political affiliation. So why are national democrats being quiet on this? Well Joe Manchin is a moderate democrat in a state that has transitioned blue the last few decades. They can't lose that precarious seat in an already tight senate margin for votes so they are going to just let these people lose their jobs instead of doing the right thing.

Fresh Start Political Thread

Debating with the enemy