Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?

[Warthog]

I still hope they draft Chase Young and think they will.

I thought the Redskins would try to pick up above average and very good FA players like Hooper, Boston, Fuller while resigning Scherff, Flowers and maybe Williams. When the Dunbar issue came up I thought they’d give him the guaranteed money he wanted.

Instead, the Redskins went “all in” for a SINGLE STAR - Cooper. Cooper is a Superstar but he was going to absorb over 30% of the cap money. The team also made an half-ass effort to get Hooper and Flowers but stuck to a pre-determined price for each. Miami outbid us by $2 mill yr for Flowers and Cleveland outbid us by $.5 mill for Hooper.

It’s easy to say, “ Hooper is getting the top TE money but he’s NOT an elite TE.” True. “We held the line on how much we were going to pay him.” True. But he was THE BEST TE in FA. We NEEDED Hooper DESPERATELY to start to rebuild our TE guys. He was a very good blocker, pass catcher and he was not injured much. Since we missed on Hooper, and since Davis is retired and Reed is gone, the Redskins had to bottom feed for cheap TE’s left in FA. Unless we are VERY, VERY LUCKY, we can’t improve our TE in the draft. The best TE draft picks will be long gone by the time our third round pick comes up. Rivera was willing to go way over budget for Cooper, but then held the line for Hooper and Flowers.

Holding the line for FA salaries is a very good strategy. It worked for the Patriots. But the Patriots had the greatest QB of all time playing for just an average QB salary, year-after-year. Also, because the Pats kept competing toward the SB, elite players would go to NE at bargain basement salaries just to get a ring.

On the other side of the FA strategy was the Redskins, who vastly overpaid for big-name players who were usually past their prime and generally playing so they didn’t get hurt. Players came to Washington to “cash in”. Rivera is right to change 20 years of Snyder/Allen/Cerrato’s failed FA strategy. But IN THE BEGINNING of this culture change, the Redskins might need to throw in a little extra money to get players to buy into this franchise until we start winning. The Redskins couldn’t add $1 mill to capture Hooper? The Redskins couldn’t offer Dunbar some guaranteed money to KEEP one of the BEST CB’s in the NFL? Instead we let him go for a fifth round draft pick!!

The Redskins need to rebuild this team with a mixture of young and talented FA, a couple old guys with some fuel for one or two good seasons (like AP) and finally by keeping their draft picks and then making good draft picks with them.

This first FA season did not go well IMO. Here’s the FA score: lost Dunbar, Flowers, Williams (assumed). These three were good to outstanding players. We were outbid for Cooper and Hooper. We picked up just ONE very good player: Fuller. We kept Scherff with a franchise tag of $16.1 mill. Getting just Fuller and Scherff with over $66 mill in cap space is all we did?. If we trade Williams’s then we got those two players for $72 mill in cap.

Bruce Allen always went for the big name and paid big bucks to get him. The team never had any depth and these overpaid players offer were hurt.

This season RR’s “Plan B”, after Cooper stayed at Dallas, was to bottom scrap the barnacle FA players with cheap, one-year contracts. Worst-Case, the team will have very good depth for the first time in 20 years. We’ll get surprised by a few decent starters, like we saw with Flowers. The team missed with Hooper but has five TE candidates already, plus a few more low TE draft picks / UDFA. With 7-8 TE in TC, we’ll get lucky with someone. The team already has 7 WR, plus adding more in the draft/UDFA. The team already has MacLaurin and Sims, Jr as very good-outstanding starters. All we need is just one guy to come in as our WR #2.

Next year the team has to do better in FA. The $30 mill left in cap space that is NOT SPENT this season DOESN’T carry over to next year. Putting all your eggs toward JUST ONE ELITE FA is a poor plan if you don’t actually hire him. Especially if your Plan B is fairly weak. Since RR got burned by going after a big star player in FA, we’ll see if this effects his decision about drafting Chase Young versus trading for a couple high draft picks. I don’t think Miami will make us an offer for the #2 pick. They can sit back and get Tua at #5 and still keep all their draft picks. Chase Young will wear the Burgundy and Gold this season!


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[Chief X_Phackter]

It's been said on here already, but I'll say it again...it's BS that the Redskins significantly outbid the Cowgirls for Amari Cooper. If they were "all-in" on him, then perhaps they would have...but they only offered him $23mil guaranteed, while the Cowturds offered him $60mil in guarantees. Tough decision right?

I think they entered free agency with a plan, and knew what their value of each player was, and how that price figured into the long term plans, and they STUCK (ARE STICKING) TO THE PLAN!

I'm a fan of that...

[Ohioskins]

So their plan going into free agency was to spend next to nothing and to make no significant improvements in the team ?????? You know, I am NOT ok with that. I am not saying that they had to spend like crazy up to the cap. But I am saying they could have tried to add starting level talent to the team rather than adding a bunch of injured, re-tread and "never was" players and hoping to catch lighting in a bottle. I mean, look at the offensive line ......... it is bad joke. And a threat to the health of Haskins.

[Ohioskins]

Chief X, the biggest play of Schwietzer's season is where he did not pick up a blitz and almost got Ryan killed. The biggest play of Vujnovich was .......... Well there was no biggest play of his season because he is a journey man back up lineman, not a starter.

[AnonEmouse]

I suspect RR is worried about us replicating the Rams and going SB or bust so wasn't going to go all out in FA, especially with a thin crop. But I agree that we've been too cautious. We needed to strengthen at least at CB, FS, 2 or 3 LB spots, TE, WR and OL, particularly TE and OL. For me, if they decided to go all out on D we'd have at least picked up the likes of Boston, Littleton, Schobel and Jones, leaving the draft to pick up O. Instead we made a 70% effort to sign Cooper, 90% effort for Hooper and missed out on the best LB and DB prospects. So we have depth, and maybe there is a lot to be said for the impact of character and culture across the whole team. But I agree we missed out on 2-3 ideal guys at least and I'm not sure why. As said, we can't carry across cap space so what are we going to do with so much spare sloshing around this year? Who's coming up in FA next year to warrant avoiding expensive multi year contracts this year? Are we looking to make a few pre/post draft trades that eat up cap?

I like the idea of playing our cards close to our chest, but we're in danger of telling the rest of the league we don't actually have a hand if we're not careful.

[EdmundDorf]

Originally Posted by Ohioskins

Chief X, the biggest play of Schwietzer's season is where he did not pick up a blitz and almost got Ryan killed. The biggest play of Vujnovich was .......... Well there was no biggest play of his season because he is a journey man back up lineman, not a starter.

That goes with being an OL, they are always only noticed when they screw up....

[EdmundDorf]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

I suspect RR is worried about us replicating the Rams and going SB or bust so wasn't going to go all out in FA, especially with a thin crop. But I agree that we've been too cautious. We needed to strengthen at least at CB, FS, 2 or 3 LB spots, TE, WR and OL, particularly TE and OL. For me, if they decided to go all out on D we'd have at least picked up the likes of Boston, Littleton, Schobel and Jones, leaving the draft to pick up O. Instead we made a 70% effort to sign Cooper, 90% effort for Hooper and missed out on the best LB and DB prospects. So we have depth, and maybe there is a lot to be said for the impact of character and culture across the whole team. But I agree we missed out on 2-3 ideal guys at least and I'm not sure why. As said, we can't carry across cap space so what are we going to do with so much spare sloshing around this year? Who's coming up in FA next year to warrant avoiding expensive multi year contracts this year? Are we looking to make a few pre/post draft trades that eat up cap?

I like the idea of playing our cards close to our chest, but we're in danger of telling the rest of the league we don't actually have a hand if we're not careful.

Where has it been stated that cap space cant be carried forward? That would be a big change from previous seasons

[EdmundDorf]

Biggest improvements will come from coaching, this year is needed to establish the new regime, with everything else going on and a lack of draft picks there is not going to be a lot of chance to gain ground on the leading teams, they need to establish the core team rather than spend a fortune on average players

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Ohioskins

So their plan going into free agency was to spend next to nothing and to make no significant improvements in the team ?????? You know, I am NOT ok with that. I am not saying that they had to spend like crazy up to the cap. But I am saying they could have tried to add starting level talent to the team rather than adding a bunch of injured, re-tread and "never was" players and hoping to catch lighting in a bottle. I mean, look at the offensive line ......... it is bad joke. And a threat to the health of Haskins.

I think their plan is to see what this roster can do and bring in competition to see who steps up. And i am ok with that.

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[KI Skins Fan]

1. RR has made it crystal clear that he intends to build this team through the draft.

2. Free Agency isn't over yet. We can still add a good stopgap LT on a 1 year deal, for example.

3. After over two decades of inept FA deals, we Redskins fans can't even grasp what RR is trying to do in FA. I really don't feel like going into detail about why I think he's doing the right thing in FA but just remember my first point: He intends to build through the draft. If you just put the players he has added in categories, you'll see more clearly what he is doing. Most of these players won't be here in one or two years but we have to play an NFL schedule as we improve and RR wants to build the team without being absolutely horrible in the process.

4. We're not done trading people and picking up more draft picks. I believe that Trent Williams will be traded prior to the draft, probably for multiple picks. Ryan Kerrigan may be traded, as well.

5. RR is gonna build this team the right way. It's not going to happen overnight and he sure as hell isn't going to do it the way we're used to seeing business done around here.

This has been one man's opinion.

[Number44]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

I suspect RR is worried about us replicating the Rams and going SB or bust so wasn't going to go all out in FA, especially with a thin crop. But I agree that we've been too cautious. We needed to strengthen at least at CB, FS, 2 or 3 LB spots, TE, WR and OL, particularly TE and OL. For me, if they decided to go all out on D we'd have at least picked up the likes of Boston, Littleton, Schobel and Jones, leaving the draft to pick up O. Instead we made a 70% effort to sign Cooper, 90% effort for Hooper and missed out on the best LB and DB prospects. So we have depth, and maybe there is a lot to be said for the impact of character and culture across the whole team. But I agree we missed out on 2-3 ideal guys at least and I'm not sure why. As said, we can't carry across cap space so what are we going to do with so much spare sloshing around this year? Who's coming up in FA next year to warrant avoiding expensive multi year contracts this year? Are we looking to make a few pre/post draft trades that eat up cap?

I like the idea of playing our cards close to our chest, but we're in danger of telling the rest of the league we don't actually have a hand if we're not careful.

70% effort on Cooper? We reportedly offered him $110 million over 5 years. More than any team in the league, including Dallas. So you're saying we should have offered $145 million? Really? Frankly, I think our offer was too much as it was, and I'm glad he didn't take it. I do like the idea of only offering big money to the very best out there in free agency, and not overpay for talent that isn't quite star quality. Otherwise, minor improvements to our roster with veteran role players with some upside at little cost or risk doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

By the way, unused cap space can be carried forward. You are wrong about that.

I disagree with your apparent overall viewpoint that we should outbid every team on every player. Heck, we've overpaid for has-been players for years. That's been part of our problem under Bruce Allen. The "win the off-season" approach failed miserably. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what Rivera and Smith can do, and I'm willing to give them the chance to do it.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Ohioskins

So their plan going into free agency was to spend next to nothing and to make no significant improvements in the team ?????? You know, I am NOT ok with that. I am not saying that they had to spend like crazy up to the cap. But I am saying they could have tried to add starting level talent to the team rather than adding a bunch of injured, re-tread and "never was" players and hoping to catch lighting in a bottle. I mean, look at the offensive line ......... it is bad joke. And a threat to the health of Haskins.

What exactly are you looking for? You're "not saying" that they had to spend like crazy up to the cap, yet you apparently wanted them to outbid Dallas and Cleveland for Cooper and Hooper... I like the receivers currently on the roster, and the draft is DEEP in that position, so I'm glad Cooper resigned with the Cowboys. Hooper? Well, he was probably the best TE available, which is why Cleveland overpaid for him. That is what you had to do to land him - supply & demand... I'm glad they passed.

I actually think they improved the secondary bringing in Fuller and Davis, and letting Norman, Dunbar and Nicholson hit the road. There's a lot of young talent there, and I'm sure they aren't done adding to it.

The O-line is basically what it was last year...I mean no one knew what they were going to get with Flowers at LG going into last season. He did alright, but I imagine he's replaceable with Martin, plus they added some depth...so Schweitzer missed a blitz last year? I guess he's the only O-lineman that did that huh?

I think the team can be competitive as is - with the new regime...IF Haskins (or the QB position in general) takes a step forward.

Carrying cap space forward is a good thing. There's a lot of
"potentially" core players whose contracts are up in the next couple years - Allen, Foster, Moreau, Guice, etc. Having money to retain your own is a big thing moving forward. The new regime just needs time to really evaluate what they have and who fits in their systems.

Yeah, so far I'm fine with pretty much everything that has been done - or not done...

[AnonEmouse]

Originally Posted by Number44

70% effort on Cooper? We reportedly offered him $110 million over 5 years. More than any team in the league, including Dallas. So you're saying we should have offered $145 million? Really? Frankly, I think our offer was too much as it was, and I'm glad he didn't take it. I do like the idea of only offering big money to the very best out there in free agency, and not overpay for talent that isn't quite star quality. Otherwise, minor improvements to our roster with veteran role players with some upside at little cost or risk doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

By the way, unused cap space can be carried forward. You are wrong about that.

I disagree with your apparent overall viewpoint that we should outbid every team on every player. Heck, we've overpaid for has-been players for years. That's been part of our problem under Bruce Allen. The "win the off-season" approach failed miserably. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what Rivera and Smith can do, and I'm willing to give them the chance to do it.

I meant we put 70% effort into the negotiations, not offered 70% of what we should. If we'd sounded him out on what it would take to leave Dallas, we may not have got him anyway because of the tax situation (US tax system always confuses me, but probably no worse than ours&#128522. What I read makes it sound like we didn't come close enough for him to consider the offer. That's all.

And I'm definitely not saying we should outbid every team, but there were guys that at least on the face of it either didn't negotiate with or didn't do so seriously. I can only go by what I can see on the web, so maybe you guys know more, but aside from the bids on Cooper & Hooper, I've seen no sign of approaches to some of the names I mentioned. From what I saw and read about Littleton, for example, he would be a good fit. Did we even try?

[AnonEmouse]

Sorry misunderstood about carrying cap space. But don't we have a requirement to spend at least 89%? With the numbers being talked about, we must be a way under that right now?

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by AnonEmouse

I meant we put 70% effort into the negotiations, not offered 70% of what we should. If we'd sounded him out on what it would take to leave Dallas, we may not have got him anyway because of the tax situation (US tax system always confuses me, but probably no worse than ours&#128522. What I read makes it sound like we didn't come close enough for him to consider the offer. That's all.

And I'm definitely not saying we should outbid every team, but there were guys that at least on the face of it either didn't negotiate with or didn't do so seriously. I can only go by what I can see on the web, so maybe you guys know more, but aside from the bids on Cooper & Hooper, I've seen no sign of approaches to some of the names I mentioned. From what I saw and read about Littleton, for example, he would be a good fit. Did we even try?

Again, Dallas offered $37mil more in guarantees. It probably wasn't a tough decision for Cooper to make.

I think perhaps they might like to see what they have in Hamilton, Bostic, Clemons, Foster, Holcomb, Anderson, Pierre-Louis, etc, before ponying up $32mil for another linebacker.