The Gibbs Hypocrisy!

Dana87 · 09-13-2005, 06:56 PM

I was trying to figure out how some of you could be so against Brunell taking over for Ramsey as the starter, and then it hit me you guys don't bother to watch the games. Because if you had then you would come to the same conclusion that Coach Gibbs did. Ramsey, while full of potential just can't seem to get in rythem. He has constantly turned the ball over. He couldn't even get through the 1st posession without giving up the ball and valuable field position. Now I know what you Brunell detractors are going to say... Brunell was going against 2nd & 3rd team players in the preseason. And your right. But the important thing about the way he played was his accuracy. It doesn't matter whether Champ Bailey or Beatle Bailey is in coverage If Brunell's passes are on target hiting our receivers in stride and Ramsey's passes are either under thrown and picked off or over thrown to a WR that has 2 steps on his man , it is clear which QB is ready to lead the team right now and which one needs to wait his turn. With all that said, I am a big Patrick Ramsey Fan. I think he is one of the gutsiest players I have ever seen. I just believe that it doesn't make sense to let patrick play himself into a rythem when we haven't seen any consistancy to build on. I hope that Patrick can hang in there because he might get another chance to prove himself.

sportscurmudgeon · 09-13-2005, 07:10 PM

Since people are trying desperately to reduce this QB decision to a simple yes/no status, let me try something here.

This is 2005 - not 2004. We have a very small data set to work with since there has been only one game thusfar, but if I remember correctly the Redskins did not have 9 points on the board when Brunell came into the game. So he did not "preserve a win", he was the QB on the field when the winning points showed up.

Look, football is a team game so neither QB won the Bears' game by himself - nor will any one player lose many games by himself. But if "winning is what matters" - and you know that I fundamentally believe that it is - then in 2005, Mark Brunell is more about winning than Patrick Ramsey is. That was not the case in 2004 to be sure, but then again, it is 2005...

Oh, and by the way, unless Patrick Ramsey goes AWOL - which would REALLY make him desirable on the trade/free agent market

- he is not going to be traded anywhere this year. He can demand or not demand to be traded; he's here for the season.

That Guy · 09-13-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dana87

I was trying to figure out how some of you could be so against Brunell taking over for Ramsey as the starter, and then it hit me you guys don't bother to watch the games. Because if you had then you would come to the same conclusion that Coach Gibbs did.

Please! stopping telling people what they think and calling people who disagree stupid. It's getting old.

skinsguy · 09-13-2005, 07:11 PM

*Yawn*

I'm with Matty....let the story unfold on the field. I'm tired of the debating between two medicore QBs.

davy · 09-13-2005, 07:14 PM

Any member of this board who believes he is more able than Gibbs to judge the relative merits of Brunell and Ramsey is seriously delusional and really ought to seek professional psychiatric help.

You know who you are.

Defensewins · 09-13-2005, 07:30 PM

The one thing that all the rabid Ramsey fanatics keeping bringing up is "last year Ramsey played better and won more games than Brunell."
Well the truth is the Redskins were 3-6 when Ramsey took over as starting QB, and the Redskins playoff hopes were pretty much all gone. There was no immediate pressure on Ramsey to win a couple of games and get us in the playoffs. The playoff pressure was gone.
Ramsey has proven time and again that when the pressure is on he falls apart. In the 2004 preseason when the competition for QB was open and the pressure was on, Ramsey played his worst ever as a Skin.
In 2005 preseason, Ramsey was named the starter and the pressure was on again for Ramsey to take us to the playoffs, but yet again Ramsey played his worst football as a Skin.
I have said this several times on TWP, Ramsey besides his slow foot work, inability to elude the rush, bad decisions with the ball, holds on to the ball to long, gets sacked too much and turnovering the ball too much, his biggest weakness is he does not step up in the clutch. He cannot handle the pressure.
In his four years as a Redskin he has shown flashes... that is all.
I never understood some of the posts of years pasts that have compared the great Ramsey to Brett Farve etc. etc.
Now those folks are the ones that are upset about Ramsey getting benched.
The reality that ramsey is not very good right now and was benched because of it hurts some folks. That is understandable.

illdefined · 09-13-2005, 07:37 PM

what did Brunell show outside of Jacksonville and the preseasons? anybody??

Defensewins · 09-13-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illdefined

what did Brunell show outside of Jacksonville and the preseasons? anybody??

The one thing the Ramsey loyal fans fail to see is it not about Brunell. It is about Ramsey and his inability to play well consistantly. Ramsey was benched for poor play period. If we had another 2nd stringer it would be them starting right now and not Brunell.

saskin · 09-13-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensewins

The one thing the Ramsey loyal fans fail to see is it not about Brunell. It is about Ramsey and his inability to play well consistantly. Ramsey was benched for poor play period. If we had another 2nd stringer it would be them starting right now and not Brunell.

Yeah, I think that is the real reason. If anything, the only other QB Gibbs has is Brunell. He obviously (and I don't blame him) doesn't wanna use Campbell too early.

skinsguy · 09-13-2005, 07:39 PM

Actually, last year, the playoffs were still very much into our plans up until Dallas beat us in the last 30 seconds of the second meeting. If we had beaten the Cowboys, we would have been in the playoffs. I'm also considering the fact that we beat Minnesota last year. So, I wouldn't necessarily say the playoffs were out of the question in Ramsey was inserted into the lineup.

Defensewins · 09-13-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Actually, last year, the playoffs were still very much into our plans up until Dallas beat us in the last 30 seconds of the second meeting. If we had beaten the Cowboys, we would have been in the playoffs. I'm also considering the fact that we beat Minnesota last year. So, I wouldn't necessarily say the playoffs were out of the question in Ramsey was inserted into the lineup.

We were 3-6 and played like shit. Do you really honestly think we were going to make it into the playoffs? Regardless of the math of the crappy NFC east. What, one of the playoff teams in the NFC was the first .500 team to ever make it to the playoffs...in NFL history!

skinsguy · 09-13-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensewins

We were 3-6 and played like shit. Do you really honestly think we were going to make it into the playoffs? Regardless of the math of the crappy NFC east. What, one of the playoff teams in the NFC was the first .500 team to ever make it to the playoffs...in NFL history!

Yes - were in the playoffs if had hung on to beat the Cowboys and knowing we had beat the Vikings the following week. That was fact. That was all we had to do to make the playoffs.

Defensewins · 09-14-2005, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Yes - were in the playoffs if had hung on to beat the Cowboys and knowing we had beat the Vikings the following week. That was fact. That was all we had to do to make the playoffs.

The FACT is we did not make the playoffs.

The only reason we were still mathematically and remotely still in the playoff race is most of the NFC sucks and the AFC was beating up on NFC teams. Last year other than Philly, there was no other legit superbowl winning contender.

JWsleep · 09-13-2005, 07:50 PM

Here's what I think about all this hypocrisy talk:

Gibbs named PR the starter in the offseason so he'd gain confidence, work hard all offseason, and not be looking over his shoulder. How did he respond? With happy feet, bad reads, and turnovers. He also had trouble hitting the deep ball--I mean hitting WRs in stride down the field. His WRs made some nice plays coming back to the ball and with RAC, mostly. He held the ball too long and took sacks at bad times. And he NEVER LOOKED COMFORTABLE. I was a PR supporter, but I saw that and hoped it would change. It certainly hadn't in quarter #1 AT HOME AGAINST THE WEAK ASS BEARS. When was it going to happen, in Dallas? Denver? When?

Gibbs gave the guy six months as the starter--but he didn't look like it in practice, in scrimmages, in preseason games, and last sunday. Meanwhile, Brunnell looked like a different guy--we all saw that as well. THis isn't the first time a "bench Ramsey, Play Brunnell" discussion has gone on here, folks. So Gibbs re-evaluated the situation after the game, took everything into account, and made the switch. Is that hypocrisy?

No one in the NFL is guaranteed anything. Sure, if you're Peyton Manning or Donovan or someone, you'll get the benefit of the doubt. But PR has not earned that respect. He's been given lots of chances, IMO, and never stepped up. Y'all want to say that's Gibbs fault--but PR played his role in this too. Go back and look at his posture in the pocket on Sunday. Was he confortable? And check out his long incomplete pass to Cooley: One, it was overthrown; Two, Sanatana Moss had blown by single coverage on the otherside, and Ramsey NEVER SAW HIM! And, finally, check out the INT. What the F*** happens on that play? Is that Gibbs being a hypocrite? Or is that PR throwing away his chance to start?

One last point: Are you all really mad that Gibbs pulled Ramsey, and allegendly went back on his word, or are you just mad because you think Brunnell sucks? My guess is that you are mad becuase you HATE Brunnell after last year. I have sympathy with that, but thats a completely different point. It might make Gibbs dumb to play Brunnell, but it doesn't make him a hypocrite.

Gibbs said NO TURNOVERS. What did PR do after that was said? That was fair warning.

illdefined · 09-13-2005, 07:51 PM

its not about Brunell? its about anybody who's next because those 20 minutes were so horrid? and when Brunell gets his first turnover, does it go to Campbell? Ramsey? probably not huh. Gibbs has his favorites, there's no denying it.

09-13-2005, 07:10 PM	#2
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! Since people are trying desperately to reduce this QB decision to a simple yes/no status, let me try something here. This is 2005 - not 2004. We have a very small data set to work with since there has been only one game thusfar, but if I remember correctly the Redskins did not have 9 points on the board when Brunell came into the game. So he did not "preserve a win", he was the QB on the field when the winning points showed up. Look, football is a team game so neither QB won the Bears' game by himself - nor will any one player lose many games by himself. But if "winning is what matters" - and you know that I fundamentally believe that it is - then in 2005, Mark Brunell is more about winning than Patrick Ramsey is. That was not the case in 2004 to be sure, but then again, it is 2005... Oh, and by the way, unless Patrick Ramsey goes AWOL - which would REALLY make him desirable on the trade/free agent market - he is not going to be traded anywhere this year. He can demand or not demand to be traded; he's here for the season. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

09-13-2005, 07:11 PM	#4
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! Yawn I'm with Matty....let the story unfold on the field. I'm tired of the debating between two medicore QBs. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

09-13-2005, 07:14 PM	#5
davy Impact Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Location: England Posts: 957	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! Any member of this board who believes he is more able than Gibbs to judge the relative merits of Brunell and Ramsey is seriously delusional and really ought to seek professional psychiatric help. You know who you are.

09-13-2005, 07:30 PM	#6
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,765	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! The one thing that all the rabid Ramsey fanatics keeping bringing up is "last year Ramsey played better and won more games than Brunell." Well the truth is the Redskins were 3-6 when Ramsey took over as starting QB, and the Redskins playoff hopes were pretty much all gone. There was no immediate pressure on Ramsey to win a couple of games and get us in the playoffs. The playoff pressure was gone. Ramsey has proven time and again that when the pressure is on he falls apart. In the 2004 preseason when the competition for QB was open and the pressure was on, Ramsey played his worst ever as a Skin. In 2005 preseason, Ramsey was named the starter and the pressure was on again for Ramsey to take us to the playoffs, but yet again Ramsey played his worst football as a Skin. I have said this several times on TWP, Ramsey besides his slow foot work, inability to elude the rush, bad decisions with the ball, holds on to the ball to long, gets sacked too much and turnovering the ball too much, his biggest weakness is he does not step up in the clutch. He cannot handle the pressure. In his four years as a Redskin he has shown flashes... that is all. I never understood some of the posts of years pasts that have compared the great Ramsey to Brett Farve etc. etc. Now those folks are the ones that are upset about Ramsey getting benched. The reality that ramsey is not very good right now and was benched because of it hurts some folks. That is understandable.

09-13-2005, 07:37 PM	#7
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 49 Posts: 2,631	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! what did Brunell show outside of Jacksonville and the preseasons? anybody??

09-13-2005, 06:56 PM	#1
Dana87 Special Teams Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Saint Augustine, Florida Age: 64 Posts: 130	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! I was trying to figure out how some of you could be so against Brunell taking over for Ramsey as the starter, and then it hit me you guys don't bother to watch the games. Because if you had then you would come to the same conclusion that Coach Gibbs did. Ramsey, while full of potential just can't seem to get in rythem. He has constantly turned the ball over. He couldn't even get through the 1st posession without giving up the ball and valuable field position. Now I know what you Brunell detractors are going to say... Brunell was going against 2nd & 3rd team players in the preseason. And your right. But the important thing about the way he played was his accuracy. It doesn't matter whether Champ Bailey or Beatle Bailey is in coverage If Brunell's passes are on target hiting our receivers in stride and Ramsey's passes are either under thrown and picked off or over thrown to a WR that has 2 steps on his man , it is clear which QB is ready to lead the team right now and which one needs to wait his turn. With all that said, I am a big Patrick Ramsey Fan. I think he is one of the gutsiest players I have ever seen. I just believe that it doesn't make sense to let patrick play himself into a rythem when we haven't seen any consistancy to build on. I hope that Patrick can hang in there because he might get another chance to prove himself.

09-13-2005, 07:39 PM	#10
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! Actually, last year, the playoffs were still very much into our plans up until Dallas beat us in the last 30 seconds of the second meeting. If we had beaten the Cowboys, we would have been in the playoffs. I'm also considering the fact that we beat Minnesota last year. So, I wouldn't necessarily say the playoffs were out of the question in Ramsey was inserted into the lineup. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

09-13-2005, 07:50 PM	#14
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 56 Posts: 4,719	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! Here's what I think about all this hypocrisy talk: Gibbs named PR the starter in the offseason so he'd gain confidence, work hard all offseason, and not be looking over his shoulder. How did he respond? With happy feet, bad reads, and turnovers. He also had trouble hitting the deep ball--I mean hitting WRs in stride down the field. His WRs made some nice plays coming back to the ball and with RAC, mostly. He held the ball too long and took sacks at bad times. And he NEVER LOOKED COMFORTABLE. I was a PR supporter, but I saw that and hoped it would change. It certainly hadn't in quarter #1 AT HOME AGAINST THE WEAK ASS BEARS. When was it going to happen, in Dallas? Denver? When? Gibbs gave the guy six months as the starter--but he didn't look like it in practice, in scrimmages, in preseason games, and last sunday. Meanwhile, Brunnell looked like a different guy--we all saw that as well. THis isn't the first time a "bench Ramsey, Play Brunnell" discussion has gone on here, folks. So Gibbs re-evaluated the situation after the game, took everything into account, and made the switch. Is that hypocrisy? No one in the NFL is guaranteed anything. Sure, if you're Peyton Manning or Donovan or someone, you'll get the benefit of the doubt. But PR has not earned that respect. He's been given lots of chances, IMO, and never stepped up. Y'all want to say that's Gibbs fault--but PR played his role in this too. Go back and look at his posture in the pocket on Sunday. Was he confortable? And check out his long incomplete pass to Cooley: One, it was overthrown; Two, Sanatana Moss had blown by single coverage on the otherside, and Ramsey NEVER SAW HIM! And, finally, check out the INT. What the F*** happens on that play? Is that Gibbs being a hypocrite? Or is that PR throwing away his chance to start? One last point: Are you all really mad that Gibbs pulled Ramsey, and allegendly went back on his word, or are you just mad because you think Brunnell sucks? My guess is that you are mad becuase you HATE Brunnell after last year. I have sympathy with that, but thats a completely different point. It might make Gibbs dumb to play Brunnell, but it doesn't make him a hypocrite. Gibbs said NO TURNOVERS. What did PR do after that was said? That was fair warning. __________________ Hail from Houston!

09-13-2005, 07:51 PM	#15
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 49 Posts: 2,631	Re: The Gibbs Hypocrisy! its not about Brunell? its about anybody who's next because those 20 minutes were so horrid? and when Brunell gets his first turnover, does it go to Campbell? Ramsey? probably not huh. Gibbs has his favorites, there's no denying it.

The Gibbs Hypocrisy!

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