rebuilding or FA frenzy?

[redsk1]

Damn, this is turning into a Luck thread too.

I can guarantee it won't be a FA frenzy. The last 15 years hasn't been too kind on our FA Frenzy philosophy.

I really want to draft Luck. I won't root to lose. Well, if we're playing the last game of the year and we need to lose to pick #1, I'll root to lose for the overall betterment of our team!!

[skinster]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

Okay and if so through the rebuilding process with your so called "middle grade draft picks" we don't do well because we are young and inexperienced and lose a lot of games so be it. That is part of the rebuilding process. But you make it sound like losing would be on purpose, a priority. That is just ignorant and asinine if you ask me.

I think its ignorant to think otherwise (even though I am aware I am in the vast minority). I can think of very few teams that were consistently average teams and then suddenly broke through to become top tier. These mediocre teams seem to all stay mediocre untill they suddenly drop to the bottom. I could go on for a while to tell you all the examples, but I'm sure you can look them up yourself. Being mediocre is delaying the inevitable of being terrible. Which is what seems to be happening to us now. Being kind of bad is not going to fix the problem. A true superstar needs to emerge. I think the lions and the rams are on their way to becoming legitimate teams. We need that superstar, and the best way to get him is with the first pick. Its very rare that Aaron Rodgers will fall into your lap in the 20's. The picks at the top of the 2nd/3rd round won't hurt either.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by skinster

You think that the rams are happy they were last?

Or the lions?

Or the Chargers?

Or the Colts?

Or the Broncos getting elway (just saying that cause luck reminds me of elway)?

I don't believe luck to be an alex smith/jamarcus russell/whoever else. This guy is the real deal.

I guarantee you that if we get last this year and pick luck, you will look back at this year as the best thing that ever happened to the redskins.

Your god damn right I'd scrap one meaningless year (get real, we have no shot this year) to be successful for the next 12.

I agree with you. Most fans will not root for the team to lose though. they feel guilty or something like they are not a real fan.

I never actually cheer for the redskins to lose but once it's obvious the team is going no where I stop getting upset when they lose...that's the best i can do.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinster

I think its ignorant to think otherwise (even though I am aware I am in the vast minority). I can think of very few teams that were consistently average teams and then suddenly broke through to become top tier. These mediocre teams seem to all stay mediocre untill they suddenly drop to the bottom. I could go on for a while to tell you all the examples, but I'm sure you can look them up yourself. Being mediocre is delaying the inevitable of being terrible. Which is what seems to be happening to us now. Being kind of bad is not going to fix the problem. A true superstar needs to emerge. I think the lions and the rams are on their way to becoming legitimate teams. We need that superstar, and the best way to get him is with the first pick. Its very rare that Aaron Rodgers will fall into your lap in the 20's. The picks at the top of the 2nd/3rd round won't hurt either.

Let's look at the last three Super Bowl winners, shall we?

Packers - did not draft their QB in the top ten. Did not hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.
Steelers - did not draft their QB in the top ten. Last won fewer than 6 games in 1988. Did not hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.
Saints - their franchise QB was not even a first rounder. Hit bottom several years ago but used the pick to draft a role-player RB. Did not hit hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.

Therefore your theory is full of crap.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Let's look at the last three Super Bowl winners, shall we?

Packers - did not draft their QB in the top ten. Did not hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.
Steelers - did not draft their QB in the top ten. Last won fewer than 6 games in 1988. Did not hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.
Saints - their franchise QB was not even a first rounder. Hit bottom several years ago but used the pick to draft a role-player RB. Did not hit hit bottom, draft a QB high, and then win it all.

Therefore your theory is full of crap.

I'm pretty sure I said in my previous post that its rare for a top flight qb to drop to the late first round for the packers, the packers were smart to pick him, but lucky that he dropped that far. They lucked out there. Plus we don't have Ted Thompson drafting for us.

Roethlessberger was 11 if I remember correctly. He's a tweener mid/high pick. Plus we don't dick lebeau or anywhere near the pieces on defense that the steelers have.

The next time a drew brees hits the FA market, yes I say we pounce on him immediately. But it is pretty unrealistic that is going to happen anytime soon.

Any team with a qb that escaped the first round just got lucky. QB's are too important. If they really believed in him, they wouldn't mess around.

But all of this is besides the point. Andrew Luck is John Elway. He is a can't miss prospect. This opportunity doesn't come along every year. If we miss out on him by a couple of wins, every redskins fan will look back on this year five years from now wondering how good we could be if we had Luck.

I don't know why anybody sees a difference between 1-15 and 6-10. Either way we suck, and have no chance of being truely competitive in this league. This is a lost season, and if you think otherwise, you are in denial.

[SirClintonPortis]

What we need are long term assets that can give us a lot of bang for the bucks.

FA rarely provides such things.

Even in the archaic Madden 2002 franchise mode, the FAs classes have players that:
1. have low ratings and are more expensive than comparable players taken from the draft
2. have high rating but are old as shit(sudden retirement and decrease in rating in the future) and cost a crapton of money.
3. are cheap but have shitty ratings. But there's always some "steal" FB or TE. lol

Right now, the only FAs we should be looking at are the cheap ones.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by celts32

I agree with you. Most fans will not root for the team to lose though. they feel guilty or something like they are not a real fan.

I never actually cheer for the redskins to lose but once it's obvious the team is going no where I stop getting upset when they lose...that's the best i can do.

If the team is too good in its current state to tank, they shouldn't tank. BUT, I would absolutely condone a GM weakening the team such that team will suck if the god-tier prospect is available. I call it the Guy Lafleur snatch.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinster

I'm pretty sure I said in my previous post that its rare for a top flight qb to drop to the late first round for the packers, the packers were smart to pick him, but lucky that he dropped that far. They lucked out there. Plus we don't have Ted Thompson drafting for us.

Roethlessberger was 11 if I remember correctly. He's a tweener mid/high pick. Plus we don't dick lebeau or anywhere near the pieces on defense that the steelers have.

The next time a drew brees hits the FA market, yes I say we pounce on him immediately. But it is pretty unrealistic that is going to happen anytime soon.

Any team with a qb that escaped the first round just got lucky. QB's are too important. If they really believed in him, they wouldn't mess around.

But all of this is besides the point. Andrew Luck is John Elway. He is a can't miss prospect. This opportunity doesn't come along every year. If we miss out on him by a couple of wins, every redskins fan will look back on this year five years from now wondering how good we could be if we had Luck.

I don't know why anybody sees a difference between 1-15 and 6-10. Either way we suck, and have no chance of being truely competitive in this league. This is a lost season, and if you think otherwise, you are in denial.

You missed the point: recent history shows that you don't have to pick a QB at #1 to win a Super Bowl.

Apply this lesson to next year and what we see is that some QB's in next year's draft other than Luck will be capable of winning a Super Bowl. We don't have to draft Luck to win it all.

Therefore we do not have to tank the season, as your factually incorrect and treasonous argument asserts.

[SmootSmack]

I dont have a problem with us losing if building blocks to our future are getting playing time. I would never root for us to lose of course. But if Hankerson, Austin, Jenkins, Capers, and Nield are out there playing and getting experience to make us a better team I'm ok with 4-12. If it's Roydell, Furrey, Maake, Hicks, and Holliday I'm not.

[SmootSmack]

And if you are rooting for 0-16, we better not once next season read any comments from you complaining about how we sucked, or I can't believe we missed that block, dropped that TD, made that call, etc.

[mbedner3420]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I dont have a problem with us losing if building blocks to our future are getting playing time. I would never root for us to lose of course. But if Hankerson, Austin, Jenkins, Capers, and Nield are out there playing and getting experience to make us a better team I'm ok with 4-12. If it's Roydell, Furrey, Maake, Hicks, and Holliday I'm not.

I'm totally fine with that scenario. They can definitely save face by playing these younger players - allowing them to gain experience and cohesion - while still making a play for a good draft pick next year...I'd be able to stand a poor 2011 campaign if it means 2012 could be substantially better. My only fear with this is Snyder. I'm afraid he won't have the patients to handle two poor seasons of shanahan.

Shanahan seems to me to be the correct guy to right the ship; however, how long can he truly last under Snyder?

[IRISHSKIN24]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Moss has said he hopes to come back.

Sorry but rooting for 0-16 = retarded.

AGREED.....I couldn't stomach that.

we just need some positive momentum to start going in the right direction...hopefully that starts this year

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by skinster

"not much longer" I mean that I have heard that we don't want to extend Rocky, Moss doesn't want to stay here, Brown wants to be a starting LT somewhere, and Los wants out as well. They are all FA's this year.

But more so on top of that by "not much longer" is that even if some of these guys stay, how much longer will they be effective? by the time we get the pieces around them to fill the other holes on our team, many players on our team will be too old an ineffective and we will have to fill those new holes, not having a complete team.

I am 100% on board with the Luck proposal, I've been saying it for years. I'd much prefer to be absolutely terrible for a few years, get the core players we need in the draft, and then start to wreck shit up as opposed to staying in mediocrity forever. The lions and Rams will be two great teams a few years down the road...hell even look at the falcons now. The colts/chargers/giants would all be nothing if not for that one bad season they had. We need a great qb, and to get that we need to lose.
I'll personally be rooting for an 0-16 season, and get Andrew Luck. I would love watching our games even in those first few seasons when our rebuilding project begins, before we are good. I'd love to just watch young guys develop and watch the improvement of our team. And then when it all clicks together, I'd love that even more. Mediocrity is the worst thing you can be in football. You don't improve enough through the draft, and your team still pisses you off. I've been pissed off way too long. I want something to look forward to.

There is no guarantee that picking near the top of the draft year after year will get you results. I mean do we really have to look at the past decade, you'll routinely find a few teams that are top 10 or worse nearly every year and aren't Super Bowl bound anytime soon. I'm sorry but I don't trust getting several early 1st round picks over a number of years leading us to prosperity. A lot of things happen over a few years and it would be stupid to mortgage the future on the hope that 3-5 top 5 picks would make us legitimate contenders; that is a completely unacceptable and foolish strategy.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

There is no guarantee that picking near the top of the draft year after year will get you results. I mean do we really have to look at the past decade, you'll routinely find a few teams that are top 10 or worse nearly every year and aren't Super Bowl bound anytime soon. I'm sorry but I don't trust getting several early 1st round picks over a number of years leading us to prosperity. A lot of things happen over a few years and it would be stupid to mortgage the future on the hope that 3-5 top 5 picks would make us legitimate contenders; that is a completely unacceptable and foolish strategy.

Our record with 1st round picks have been pretty good. So if the situation did present itself, I would predict satisfaction, at least for me.

But this is all hypothetical talk. We are too good a team to be able to tank. (yes, 5-11 or better means you are indeed too good to tank in my world). Since there will be no firesale for our team, Andrew Luck may be be a superstar...somewhere else...maybe Buf-, ahem, Toronto.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by mbedner3420

Shanahan seems to me to be the correct guy to right the ship; however, how long can he truly last under Snyder?

When the PR is no longer bad...for Snyder.