The Real Leader of this Team and Some Radical Ideas

[franklinhimself]

I don't think there are too many different likely outcomes that could happen next year.

The Redskins either stay with Zorn, and either draft a qb or stay with Campbell. Likely Gray becomes DC because Blache will retire. It will be year three, coming off a 3-13/4-12/5-11 year, and marked improvement in our offense being able to fully execute Zorn's WCO. We're probably looking at a record of 7-9 to 11-5.

Or, the house is cleaned and we start all over again. Winning record not until 2011.

I agree with those that exclaim that not only are our players continuing to pick up the playbook, but Zorn is also learning how to be the HC he can be.

With the way we are playing right now, despite all of our injuries even, we're about 3 plays away from being 6-6 and in the hunt for a wildcard berth.

I vote stay the course. I think Vinny is at least competent enough to know that with the possibility of Samuels and Thomas being done, T and G are top needs.

Mods: can we get a poll for "stay the course with Zorn" or "Clean House"

[SmootSmack]

Zorn will probably get a job as a QB coach rather quickly, he may even get an offensive coordinator position. He needs some more experience I think before he's given another HC job.

He's, by all accounts, a very nice guy. But there is a prevailing feeling from those who are around the team that one reason the coaches like him is because they can kind of walk all over him. Meaning basically that they'd rather have a Zorn who won't be a taskmaster than someone one who will be more demanding and more of a disciplinarian.

Two things concern me about Zorn as head coach. One is the obvious with the playcalling. The other is that when times were bleak early in the season it wasn't Zorn that stepped up and said this is on me. It was Blache.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Zorn will probably get a job as a QB coach rather quickly, he may even get an offensive coordinator position. He needs some more experience I think before he's given another HC job.

He's, by all accounts, a very nice guy. But there is a prevailing feeling from those who are around the team that one reason the coaches like him is because they can kind of walk all over him. Meaning basically that they'd rather have a Zorn who won't be a taskmaster than someone one who will be more demanding and more of a disciplinarian.

Two things concern me about Zorn as head coach. One is the obvious with the playcalling. The other is that when times were bleak early in the season it wasn't Zorn that stepped up and said this is on me. It was Blache.

I've pretty much heard the same thing. The players like him and maybe for all the wrong reasons. I do get the sense that last year's second round picks and the Maryland guys like it here. Still, as freddyg12 pointed out, unless we hit the jackpot with the next coach and basically go deep into the playoffs his first year, you're looking at a transition period that might not be worth it. And if Shanahan comes here, we can wave Sherm Lewis bye-bye.

If --big if--Zorn can grow from this season's setbacks and mistakes, I don't think there's any reason to believe this isn't already a 10-6 team. Heck, a two of our losses can be placed squarely on the foot of Suisham and couple of flukely plays. But that's all water under the bridge now.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Zorn will probably get a job as a QB coach rather quickly, he may even get an offensive coordinator position. He needs some more experience I think before he's given another HC job.

He's, by all accounts, a very nice guy. But there is a prevailing feeling from those who are around the team that one reason the coaches like him is because they can kind of walk all over him. Meaning basically that they'd rather have a Zorn who won't be a taskmaster than someone one who will be more demanding and more of a disciplinarian.

Two things concern me about Zorn as head coach. One is the obvious with the playcalling. The other is that when times were bleak early in the season it wasn't Zorn that stepped up and said this is on me. It was Blache.

I've gotten that feeling about him w/the players too, maybe just because CP called him out in public & it ends up being Zorn that was backpedaling.

Maybe he's a coach that will always need strong personalities at top positions, like Blache & Danny Smith. Maybe Gray as well. I just feel like it's a shame to drop him right when his offense, what he was originally hired for, is beginning to gell & should be solid right off the bat next year.

I know it may sound counterintuitive, but I think Blache leaving might be a blessing in disguise.

[duetsch215]

i agree on some stuff but....im sorry but if you root for your team to lose you are not a true fan. That completely defeats the purpose no matter the circumstances

[Bill B]

Vinny has to go and we need a house clearing - why? Let me ask this - if Vinny and the Front Office and Zorn are so great how come the Redskins have one of the highest payrolls while also having one of the worst records? Sorry but a lot of people including a ton of posters on this board were screaming that we needed to address the offensive line and yet how often does this team invest its draft picks in the past 7 years on offensive lineman? Also every NFL team has got injuries - yes the Skins have a lot of them this year but I continue to say that the average life of an NFL player is 3.5 years - so if you build a major portion of your roster on players that exceed this average age you are simply playing Russian roulette with a lot more bullets.

While I hate the constant churn I think this is the best opportunity to clear house and start the first building block by selecting the best GM money can buy. Once you have this GM in place give him the keys - overspend first on your front office and scouting department, and than when this is in place let the GM hire the coach. All Dan Snyder would do is focus on the marketing of the team and signing paychecks. I think this give us the best chance of building a sustainable and competitive team year in and year out.

[SBXVII]

Wow. You guys actually took him seriously and gave serious comments which lasted atleast 3 pages.

I couldn't get past "Zorn said from the get go..."

I know it's impolite but I honestly don't want to read a 4-5 paragraph write up about how we should keep Zorn or how we should keep Cerrato or worse keep status quo.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wow. You guys actually took him seriously and gave serious comments which lasted atleast 3 pages.

I couldn't get past "Zorn said from the get go..."

I know it's impolite but I honestly don't want to read a 4-5 paragraph write up about how we should keep Zorn or how we should keep Cerrato or worse keep status quo.

it's not, no one does

[DCtoAZ]

I can't believe I am saying this ... With the losses in the past few weeks and the effort were getting, I'm not against keeping Zorno ... everyone must admit that since Sherman has come in, the Offense has actually looked like a real offense ... now I agree that VC has got to go ... but maybe just maybe this coaching staff deserves a chance ... the Z man has everyone playing there ass off and we are 3-9, that's not easy ... all the big name coaches sound good but does that mean we are starting from scratch again and drafting a shit head QB in the draft when they all seem to be overated big time .. JC has shown me a lot and the devlopment of DT,FD, & MK has been nice ... draft the hell out of 0-Line next year and this team may not be too far from a decent run ...

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by DCtoAZ

I can't believe I am saying this ... With the losses in the past few weeks and the effort were getting, I'm not against keeping Zorno ... everyone must admit that since Sherman has come in, the Offense has actually looked like a real offense ... now I agree that VC has got to go ... but maybe just maybe this coaching staff deserves a chance ... the Z man has everyone playing there ass off and we are 3-9, that's not easy ... all the big name coaches sound good but does that mean we are starting from scratch again and drafting a shit head QB in the draft when they all seem to be overated big time .. JC has shown me a lot and the devlopment of DT,FD, & MK has been nice ... draft the hell out of 0-Line next year and this team may not be too far from a decent run ...

Vinny? Zorn? is that you?

See this way of thinking has crippled us for the last 15 yrs. through the whole Norv era..."We are only one player away." Has it worked? Have we made it anywhere? No. It's time to blow it up. Zorn was so bad they brought in an outside source. It took an outside source to fix what none of the coach's already on this team could do.

You want to keep Zorn for what reason? He's making millions to sit on the side line and look good until the 2min. drill and thats where are problems are right now. We suck at the 2min. drill and the play calls during that time cause he is handling it. We could do with out him and possibly improve this team if everything else remained the same.

I'll agree Vinny must go. But the reason I say blow it up is cause #1. Vinny must go. #2. Zorn must go. #3. We need more qualified position coach's on the offensive side of the ball. The only one who has any qualification to be here is Buges and I think is old antiquated system needs to be adjusted or revamped. We need a new way of thinking in regards to the blocking scheme in the trenches. The only reason I like Shanahan is cause his OL's in Denver were awsome. They could run on almost everyone. #4. We players who are getting old and their contracts are killing us. If there is an uncapped year we need to jetison these contracts if at all possible simply to think about the teams future. Plus getting rid of some prima dona's can only help this team. Everyone practices together plays together. Teamwork.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Vinny? Zorn? is that you?

See this way of thinking has crippled us for the last 15 yrs. through the whole Norv era..."We are only one player away." Has it worked? Have we made it anywhere? No. It's time to blow it up. Zorn was so bad they brought in an outside source. It took an outside source to fix what none of the coach's already on this team could do.

You want to keep Zorn for what reason? He's making millions to sit on the side line and look good until the 2min. drill and thats where are problems are right now. We suck at the 2min. drill and the play calls during that time cause he is handling it. We could do with out him and possibly improve this team if everything else remained the same.

I'll agree Vinny must go. But the reason I say blow it up is cause #1. Vinny must go. #2. Zorn must go. #3. We need more qualified position coach's on the offensive side of the ball. The only one who has any qualification to be here is Buges and I think is old antiquated system needs to be adjusted or revamped. We need a new way of thinking in regards to the blocking scheme in the trenches. The only reason I like Shanahan is cause his OL's in Denver were awsome. They could run on almost everyone. #4. We players who are getting old and their contracts are killing us. If there is an uncapped year we need to jetison these contracts if at all possible simply to think about the teams future. Plus getting rid of some prima dona's can only help this team. Everyone practices together plays together. Teamwork.

It just hit me, all we need is another pair of eyes that could look at our 2min offense. Whoever comes in could sit in the booth with SL, and then at 2 minutes the TV crews could zoom in as they do the ceremonial changing of the headset. And of course Zorn would still have his card in front of his mouth so no one can see what he is mouthing to his headset (still think it is - would you like fries with that). All in all, we are just one situational playcaller away from CHAMPIONSHIP!

[Longtimefan]

There are reasons for everything, and what you're saying would be ideal if you were dealing with people who understood, and took into consideration the reasons for losing. Unfortunately we're talking about a game where "all" that matters is winning and losing. Therefore it's not likely things will stay the same despite the fact some may wish it so.

[diehardskin2982]

The difference between when Zorn has the skins playing their ass off, and when Gibbs had them playin hard is that we won games.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

The difference between when Zorn has the skins playing their ass off, and when Gibbs had them playin hard is that we won games.

don't forget we had two losing seasons under gibbs.2 we went 6-10, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by mlmdub130

don't forget we had two losing seasons under gibbs.2 we went 6-10, 10-6, 5-11, 9-7

and w/just a couple exceptions, all those Gibbs 2 losses were close. A few of them were almost as heart wrenching as the NO game (the Patrick Crayton td in 04).