Portis and the Denver System Revisited

SmootSmack · 09-30-2004, 01:21 AM

I know this thread is a few days old, but I wanted to revisit it once more because it doesn't look like Q has been too impressive the past two weeks.

at Jacksonville: 25 carries, 66 yards, 0 TD, 1 Fumble
vs San Diego: 12 carries, 7 yards, 0 TD, 1 Fumble

And of course, that fumble against the Jags pretty much cost the Broncos the game. So what's up with the system?

That Guy · 09-30-2004, 05:36 AM

smoot, the "system" involves having a great RB (gone), a gelled O line, alex gibbs (gone), and playing KC twice a year... the second stringers are all putting up 120-200yds on those guys.

i can't believe they were insisting the portis keep playing for minimum wage with his kind of production...

joecrisp · 09-30-2004, 06:27 AM

Denver's rushing performance over the past two weeks may just be a hiccup, or it could be a sign that defenses are finally figuring out how to stop them. We all know now that Jacksonville has a great defense, so you'd expect a dropoff in the running game against them. But the Chargers? Well, actually their run defense is pretty stout, too. They're ranked 7th in rushing yards per game, and tied for 5th in the league at 3.2 yards allowed per carry.

So maybe it's just a case of facing two solid run defenses in consecutive weeks, or maybe there is something to be said for the effect of a great runningback and a great O-line coach on the success of a rushing attack. This is an argument that will take a couple of years to prove, one way or another. However, if Griffin remains healthy and fails to reach 1,000 yards on the season, I think it's safe to say that Denver's rushing attack lost something when it parted with Portis and Alex Gibbs.

MTK · 09-30-2004, 08:19 AM

Perhaps talent does matter a bit in their system, perhaps Griffin isn't the answer, or perhaps they're just struggling right now. Whatever it is I'm glad to have Portis on our side.

illdefined · 09-30-2004, 12:10 PM

Portis's talent and drive is beyond obvious. he never just falls, always scraps till the very end, and if he's asked to run into a pile, its at FULL speed head all the way down (all 200 lbs of him).

i used to not believe in this 'vision' crap announcers would talk about runners having, but Portis proves it to me 1000%. that first 64yd cutback was him sensing that hole even tho he was supposed to go (and look) in the other direction. whenever he's stopped or going down, he'll jump north exactly where there's space, in between the tacklers legs, behind him, anywhere. he just senses it. never seen that instinct in a Skin's back. i loved Davis, cuz he made holes bigger than they were. i love Portis cuz he sees holes that aren't directly in front of him, more importantly, he can REACH them. he was awesome to watch on Monday, and he didnt even break any big ones.

JWsleep · 09-30-2004, 12:49 PM

I agree, ill. And I also think that right now Portis is very much trying to stay "within the offense" and not cut around like Barry Sanders. Until he really gets the feel of how the timing of Gibbs run game works, and until the o-line really gets it together, he's going to stay with the play and grind it out. But when it gels, look out. He's going to break some big ones.

I've also been impressed with just how good a receiver he is (and a blocker). And he never quits on a play. Sure, Denver has a good system (we'll see if it still works), but Portis is the real deal.

That Guy · 09-30-2004, 01:08 PM

still kinda surprised we got that trade... springs has been healthy, so far i haven't missed champ... and walt harris is really good #3 too.

also on denver's system... its gonna be a few years before the OL there forgets or moves on from what AG taught them, so the falloff might not be immediate... but if QG puts ups 1200 this year, i'd be a bit surprised... well maybe not, depends on how many yards come from KC... that could be 400 right there.

offiss · 09-30-2004, 03:29 PM

The Portis run on second and goal was awful, you don't stop to look for an opening on the 1 yard line with a straight ahead running play, the entire defense was selling out, you do not have time to look for a hole, if he goes at it full bore he could have leaped over the pile, but because he stopped and then restarted he was done, that play alone showed me he's not made for running between the tackles, he does not have enough power, and he know's it.

MTK · 09-30-2004, 04:29 PM

Offiss, if you check the tape on that play you can see Portis gearing up to leap over the pile but a defender leaps over the pile right at that instant and Portis would have been crushed, that's why he stopped and looked for another hole.

memphisskin · 09-30-2004, 06:25 PM

Portis is going to be fine. The Denver system requires some talent, Q Griffin did start at OU the past couple of years so he's got some talent. I think Portis and Davis were two special backs who really understood the system, hence they were able to gain more yardage than other backs in that system.

I don't think it's the system, but more the philosophy and dedication to the running game. Gibbs has consistently churned out productive runners, but none with Portis's game changing ability. Portis is getting it, he's learning to trust the running lanes and get behind those pulling guards. And Gibbs will incorporate some sweeps and screens and tosses to take advantage of Portis' speed. But you don't run sweeps on Dallas because of the speed of their defense, you have to run right at them which Gibbs did and Portis was effective at doing that. The goal line call, well they just looked awfully rushed after that failed sneak and the play calling broke down. But I trust Gibbs, he'll fix it.

offiss · 09-30-2004, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Offiss, if you check the tape on that play you can see Portis gearing up to leap over the pile but a defender leaps over the pile right at that instant and Portis would have been crushed, that's why he stopped and looked for another hole.

I did see it but he jumped to soon and was stopped, he had no leg's under him Portis could have gone over him or knocked him back, he doesn't have to clear him, he only need's to get high enough to stretch the ball, I am a former RB, I know you do not stop in goal line situation's that close to the line of scrimmage, you will lose 99% of the time as a back, you have to hit that hole as fast and as hard as possible, I believe that Portis can out jump any linemen or LB, as I said a strong runner would have burried his head and probably scored, Portis is never going to run over anybody, or push them back, he is not a short yardage back, unless you get him to the outside, Bett's, or Rock, should be in there for the tough yard's.

That Guy · 09-30-2004, 09:33 PM

i don't believe he had troubles on goaline in denver... he's had tons of TDs, i think he just needs an O line to keep the defense out of the backfield for at least 1 second. You may have been a RB before high school, but he's a top RB in the NFL

MTK · 09-30-2004, 10:38 PM

29 TD's in 2 seasons in Denver, he didn't score all of them from 64 yards away

offiss · 10-01-2004, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

29 TD's in 2 seasons in Denver, he didn't score all of them from 64 yards away

Noted, it's not the distance that comes into play, it's running space, you have to be able to push a pile some what in short yardage, if he doesn't have much of a hole he's done, where a lot of back's can leg drive a yard or so if there's little penetration, I just see a guy who goes down to easy in close quarters, believe me, I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it.

MTK · 10-01-2004, 08:38 AM

Portis must have done something right to score 29 TD's in 2 seasons. You have to have some sort of power to punch it in with that kind of regularity.

The line and the play calls are the problem right now, not the back.

09-30-2004, 01:21 AM	#31
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	I know this thread is a few days old, but I wanted to revisit it once more because it doesn't look like Q has been too impressive the past two weeks. at Jacksonville: 25 carries, 66 yards, 0 TD, 1 Fumble vs San Diego: 12 carries, 7 yards, 0 TD, 1 Fumble And of course, that fumble against the Jags pretty much cost the Broncos the game. So what's up with the system? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-30-2004, 12:49 PM	#36
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 56 Posts: 4,719	I agree, ill. And I also think that right now Portis is very much trying to stay "within the offense" and not cut around like Barry Sanders. Until he really gets the feel of how the timing of Gibbs run game works, and until the o-line really gets it together, he's going to stay with the play and grind it out. But when it gels, look out. He's going to break some big ones. I've also been impressed with just how good a receiver he is (and a blocker). And he never quits on a play. Sure, Denver has a good system (we'll see if it still works), but Portis is the real deal. __________________ Hail from Houston!

09-30-2004, 05:36 AM	#32
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,587	smoot, the "system" involves having a great RB (gone), a gelled O line, alex gibbs (gone), and playing KC twice a year... the second stringers are all putting up 120-200yds on those guys. i can't believe they were insisting the portis keep playing for minimum wage with his kind of production...

09-30-2004, 06:27 AM	#33
joecrisp The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Age: 49 Posts: 1,501	Denver's rushing performance over the past two weeks may just be a hiccup, or it could be a sign that defenses are finally figuring out how to stop them. We all know now that Jacksonville has a great defense, so you'd expect a dropoff in the running game against them. But the Chargers? Well, actually their run defense is pretty stout, too. They're ranked 7th in rushing yards per game, and tied for 5th in the league at 3.2 yards allowed per carry. So maybe it's just a case of facing two solid run defenses in consecutive weeks, or maybe there is something to be said for the effect of a great runningback and a great O-line coach on the success of a rushing attack. This is an argument that will take a couple of years to prove, one way or another. However, if Griffin remains healthy and fails to reach 1,000 yards on the season, I think it's safe to say that Denver's rushing attack lost something when it parted with Portis and Alex Gibbs.

09-30-2004, 08:19 AM	#34
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,768	Perhaps talent does matter a bit in their system, perhaps Griffin isn't the answer, or perhaps they're just struggling right now. Whatever it is I'm glad to have Portis on our side.

09-30-2004, 12:10 PM	#35
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 49 Posts: 2,631	Portis's talent and drive is beyond obvious. he never just falls, always scraps till the very end, and if he's asked to run into a pile, its at FULL speed head all the way down (all 200 lbs of him). i used to not believe in this 'vision' crap announcers would talk about runners having, but Portis proves it to me 1000%. that first 64yd cutback was him sensing that hole even tho he was supposed to go (and look) in the other direction. whenever he's stopped or going down, he'll jump north exactly where there's space, in between the tacklers legs, behind him, anywhere. he just senses it. never seen that instinct in a Skin's back. i loved Davis, cuz he made holes bigger than they were. i love Portis cuz he sees holes that aren't directly in front of him, more importantly, he can REACH them. he was awesome to watch on Monday, and he didnt even break any big ones.

09-30-2004, 01:08 PM	#37
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,587	still kinda surprised we got that trade... springs has been healthy, so far i haven't missed champ... and walt harris is really good #3 too. also on denver's system... its gonna be a few years before the OL there forgets or moves on from what AG taught them, so the falloff might not be immediate... but if QG puts ups 1200 this year, i'd be a bit surprised... well maybe not, depends on how many yards come from KC... that could be 400 right there.

09-30-2004, 03:29 PM	#38
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 61 Posts: 3,097	The Portis run on second and goal was awful, you don't stop to look for an opening on the 1 yard line with a straight ahead running play, the entire defense was selling out, you do not have time to look for a hole, if he goes at it full bore he could have leaped over the pile, but because he stopped and then restarted he was done, that play alone showed me he's not made for running between the tackles, he does not have enough power, and he know's it.

09-30-2004, 04:29 PM	#39
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,768	Offiss, if you check the tape on that play you can see Portis gearing up to leap over the pile but a defender leaps over the pile right at that instant and Portis would have been crushed, that's why he stopped and looked for another hole.

09-30-2004, 06:25 PM	#40
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 53 Posts: 960	Portis is going to be fine. The Denver system requires some talent, Q Griffin did start at OU the past couple of years so he's got some talent. I think Portis and Davis were two special backs who really understood the system, hence they were able to gain more yardage than other backs in that system. I don't think it's the system, but more the philosophy and dedication to the running game. Gibbs has consistently churned out productive runners, but none with Portis's game changing ability. Portis is getting it, he's learning to trust the running lanes and get behind those pulling guards. And Gibbs will incorporate some sweeps and screens and tosses to take advantage of Portis' speed. But you don't run sweeps on Dallas because of the speed of their defense, you have to run right at them which Gibbs did and Portis was effective at doing that. The goal line call, well they just looked awfully rushed after that failed sneak and the play calling broke down. But I trust Gibbs, he'll fix it.

09-30-2004, 09:33 PM	#42
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,587	i don't believe he had troubles on goaline in denver... he's had tons of TDs, i think he just needs an O line to keep the defense out of the backfield for at least 1 second. You may have been a RB before high school, but he's a top RB in the NFL

09-30-2004, 10:38 PM	#43
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,768	29 TD's in 2 seasons in Denver, he didn't score all of them from 64 yards away

10-01-2004, 08:38 AM	#45
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,768	Portis must have done something right to score 29 TD's in 2 seasons. You have to have some sort of power to punch it in with that kind of regularity. The line and the play calls are the problem right now, not the back.

Portis and the Denver System Revisited

Locker Room Main Forum