More Portis

Ruhskins · 01-09-2009, 12:14 PM

I really think leadership is becoming an issue on this team, and I'm concerned that this will lead to discipline issues and our team in danger of becoming like the Bengals or the Cowboys, with a terrible locker room and players doing stupid things. The offense right now doesn't have a true leader, Campbell is a bit too young and his personal character is not of getting into someone's face. In a previous thread, someone brought up a good point of whether vets like Moss and ARE are mentoring the young receivers; which given at some of the comments made in the media about Devin Thomas (wanting to get away from football in the offseason, etc., etc.) it appears that this ain't happening. I think the defense has some potential leaders, like London Fletcher. Yet still you have situations with veterans like Shawn Springs, skipping OTAs and working out on his own (I'm not sure this happened last offseason, but it has in the past).

Sadly, this appears to be Clinton Portis' team, and the problem with that is that Portis is two outrageous comments from becoming a T.O. or a Chad Johnson. You'll see if many of the successful teams, there is an established veteran leadership among players (Brady in NE, Manning in Indy, Ray Lewis in Baltimore), I'm just not seeing that in our team. I fear that this leadership vacuum is going to cause the team to blow up if and when they have a losing season.

irish · 01-09-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This is old news, it was discussed ad-nauseum Monday when it happened. I'll restate my thoughts:

1. Portis is an idiot and becoming a locker room cancer.
2. That said, he's 100% correct. The reason we were so successful running the ball (and winning games) is because in the first half of the season, we were still using the Joe Gibbs running game. Starting 6-2 was -more than anything else- a carry-over from the system Joe Gibbs installed. The new passing game Zorn installed here was down right horrible. The one thing working for our offense was the running game -- and Zorn decided to start messing with it. Zorn is an idiot.

What does it all mean?

1.This is a 6-10 team (at best) next year.
2. Zorn will be fired.
3. Vinny will be fired. (He said in an interview Snyder was only giving he and Zorn two years to right the ship).
4. Next year, at this time, Synder will attempt to hire BIll Cowher to a 12-15M per year annual contract to be our head coach/team president/general manager. Unfortunately, He will probably be beat out by Jerry Jones. There is no logical reason for Jones to have not fired Wade Phillips by now - none. the only reason he still has a job is because Jones wants Cowher and is keeping the team intact until then.
5. If Snyder can't outbid Jones in landing Cowher, plan B will be to hire Mike Holmgren as our GM and Mike Shanahan as our Head coach. This is actually may be a better situation for the skins anyway. Shanahan/Holmgren live and breathe the WCO, so we wouldn't have to change to a brand new offensive system again. They are also offensive guys so they would probably be fine leaving the defensive system in tact - our team would have far greater continuity with a Holmgren/Shanahan combo than by bringing in anyone else.

Cowher will never come here and put up with DS's meddling and undermining his authority. I am starting to wonder what decent coach would want to come here (except for a big payday) if DS fires Zorn after only 2 years with a terribly flawed team. It could be the reason why Zorn was hired in the first place, DS realized that was the best he was going to do.

SmootSmack · 01-09-2009, 12:19 PM

Portis gives 100% every Sunday when he's steps on the field, no matter how hurt he is and whether he has the ball. He never lets up from whistle to whistle. As far as on-field effort, you can't ask for more.

That said, even though he later apparently apologized for his comments, he needs to stop. Or someone needs to tell him to stop. Start fining him for appearing on the John Thompson show, or something like that. He's frustrated, we all get that. But he's not the only one on that team furstrated. He will do anything to win, that's great. But so will a lot of other people on that team.

And this really exposes Snyder's biggest weakness. I get that he wants to take care of his star, a lot of owners do that. But you have to separate the aura of being around famous football players with the responsibilities of being the boss. Snyder has a bad habit of trying to be one of the guys by bowing down to a player and giving them whatever they want, sometimes at the expense of the rest of the organization. He did it with Darrell Green, with Bruce Smith, and now he might be doing it with Portis. He needs to put his foot down.

As for the running game, from day one Zorn (I think it was him) had said that the season would start with the same running schemes of Gibbs/Bugel and gradually it would evolve to co-exist effectively with the WCO. So yeah things didn't stay the same throughout, though that was hardly as big an issue as I think Portis is making it out to be, but that was to be expected.

irish · 01-09-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Portis gives 100% every Sunday when he's steps on the field, no matter how hurt he is and whether he has the ball. He never lets up from whistle to whistle. As far as on-field effort, you can't ask for more.

That said, even though he later apparently apologized for his comments, he needs to stop. Or someone needs to tell him to stop. Start fining him for appearing on the John Thompson show, or something like that. He's frustrated, we all get that. But he's not the only one on that team furstrated. He will do anything to win, that's great. But so will a lot of other people on that team.

And this really exposes Snyder's biggest weakness. I get that he wants to take care of his star, a lot of owners do that. But you have to separate the aura of being around famous football players with the responsibilities of being the boss. Snyder has a bad habit of trying to be one of the guys by bowing down to a player and giving them whatever they want, sometimes at the expense of the rest of the organization. He did it with Darrell Green, with Bruce Smith, and now he might be doing it with Portis. He needs to put his foot down.

As for the running game, from day one Zorn (I think it was him) had said that the season would start with the same running schemes of Gibbs/Bugel and gradually it would evolve to co-exist effectively with the WCO. So yeah things didn't stay the same throughout, though that was hardly as big an issue as I think Portis is making it out to be, but that was to be expected.

The problem is that DS sees himself as the boss of the players when in fact JZ is the boss of the players.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-09-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Cowher will never come here and put up with DS's meddling and undermining his authority. I am starting to wonder what decent coach would want to come here (except for a big payday) if DS fires Zorn after only 2 years with a terribly flawed team. It could be the reason why Zorn was hired in the first place, DS realized that was the best he was going to do.

Exactly, Zorn is a horrible coach. However, the main reason Snyder is the way he is is because he has Cerrato to act as his enabler. Snyder does meddle, but Cerrato has always been his yes-man. When Snyder fired Cerrato in the past, he stayed out of things. yes, it was only for a year, but Snyder has shown that he doesn't have to meddle... he just likes to and he Cerrato has always let him.

saden1 · 01-09-2009, 12:37 PM

Zorn's play calling the last half of the season was trash, he couldn't adjust his sweat pants let alone the Redskins offense. I hope he has learned how to adjust. Portis has a big mouth but he's not responsible for the 2-6 finish. That's all Zorn even if Portis was getting 3.5 yards per carry. You see the f'ing game plans against the Steelers, Ravens, Cowboys? Trash!!!!

Daseal · 01-09-2009, 12:42 PM

Hey Portis, SHUT UP! The offensive line rarely got you to the second level, and if they did -- you didn't break any tackles. The reason this offense sputtered is because our passing game was non-existent. Even if we threw a pass it seemed like it was off-target or it was dropped. Secondly, our play calling was starting to move back to the Gibbs era. Run, Run, Pass (short of the chains), Punt every series.

342 carries, 3rd in the NFL, and it wasn't enough? That was the reason for our collapse? Clinton Portis is really starting to bug me, and he's becoming a cancer. I wish Zorn would have dealt with him like Tomlin dealt with Tony Parker. The big issue is it's going to be a few years before we can part ways with him because of the contract.

irish · 01-09-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Exactly, Zorn is a horrible coach. However, the main reason Snyder is the way he is is because he has Cerrato to act as his enabler. Snyder does meddle, but Cerrato has always been his yes-man. When Snyder fired Cerrato in the past, he stayed out of things. yes, it was only for a year, but Snyder has shown that he doesn't have to meddle... he just likes to and he Cerrato has always let him.

I hear you and agree but I think the first time VC tells DS to go away he is gone and since VC likes his job he wont do that. DS should be smart enough to keep out of the football stuff but he wants to show he know as much as any of these football guys (even though he doesnt have a clue) and if by luck the Skins win a Super Bowl with DS as owner then DS can get up and crow about how he told VC to pick up this and that guy and how he was the real brains behind putting this team together. Unfortunately DS isnt smart enough to let the football guys do their stuff. It will be more luck than anything if the Skins win a championship with DS as owner because ultimately he's the true problem.

SmootSmack · 01-09-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Exactly, Zorn is a horrible coach. However, the main reason Snyder is the way he is is because he has Cerrato to act as his enabler. Snyder does meddle, but Cerrato has always been his yes-man. When Snyder fired Cerrato in the past, he stayed out of things. yes, it was only for a year, but Snyder has shown that he doesn't have to meddle... he just likes to and he Cerrato has always let him.

What is it that you do again?

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-09-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What is it that you do again?

I'm in risk management. I dont see how my profession is relevant though.

44ever · 01-09-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This is old news, it was discussed ad-nauseum Monday when it happened. I'll restate my thoughts:

1. Portis is an idiot and becoming a locker room cancer.
2. That said, he's 100% correct. The reason we were so successful running the ball (and winning games) is because in the first half of the season, we were still using the Joe Gibbs running game. Starting 6-2 was -more than anything else- a carry-over from the system Joe Gibbs installed. The new passing game Zorn installed here was down right horrible. The one thing working for our offense was the running game -- and Zorn decided to start messing with it. Zorn is an idiot.

What does it all mean?

1.This is a 6-10 team (at best) next year.
2. Zorn will be fired.
3. Vinny will be fired. (He said in an interview Snyder was only giving he and Zorn two years to right the ship).
4. Next year, at this time, Synder will attempt to hire BIll Cowher to a 12-15M per year annual contract to be our head coach/team president/general manager. Unfortunately, He will probably be beat out by Jerry Jones. There is no logical reason for Jones to have not fired Wade Phillips by now - none. the only reason he still has a job is because Jones wants Cowher and is keeping the team intact until then.
5. If Snyder can't outbid Jones in landing Cowher, plan B will be to hire Mike Holmgren as our GM and Mike Shanahan as our Head coach. This is actually may be a better situation for the skins anyway. Shanahan/Holmgren live and breathe the WCO, so we wouldn't have to change to a brand new offensive system again. They are also offensive guys so they would probably be fine leaving the defensive system in tact - our team would have far greater continuity with a Holmgren/Shanahan combo than by bringing in anyone else.

You know I hate to agree with Bighair because he comes of arrogant at times but, He might just be right on this one. Let's hope not.

SmootSmack · 01-09-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I'm in risk management. I dont see how my profession is relevant though.

Like at a bank? That's pretty cool.

I was just curious. Sorry to go off-topic

firstdown · 01-09-2009, 01:25 PM

Well Portis did a follow up to this and said that the coach staff in the middle of the season just kind of blew off stump Mitchell and anything he tried to say or do in regards to the running game. I agree Portis should not air his difference in public but I don't think he said anything about the coaching staff that other player don't feel themself. Also the other players know that Portis come in each Sunday and gives 110% so I don't think they will get to down on him and what he says unless he starts calling out players by name. He also gave props to the line and other players and theses statement he made where more toward Zorn and the coaching staff.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-09-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Like at a bank? That's pretty cool.

I was just curious. Sorry to go off-topic

yeah, its definitely interesting.

BigHairedAristocrat · 01-09-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44ever

You know I hate to agree with Bighair because he comes of arrogant at times but, He might just be right on this one. Let's hope not.

It's almost like a split personality or somthing (Bighair)???

Sorry for coming off as arrogant. I guess i'm just opinionated. i'll work on it.

01-09-2009, 12:14 PM	#31
Ruhskins Living Legend Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 22,331	Re: More Portis I really think leadership is becoming an issue on this team, and I'm concerned that this will lead to discipline issues and our team in danger of becoming like the Bengals or the Cowboys, with a terrible locker room and players doing stupid things. The offense right now doesn't have a true leader, Campbell is a bit too young and his personal character is not of getting into someone's face. In a previous thread, someone brought up a good point of whether vets like Moss and ARE are mentoring the young receivers; which given at some of the comments made in the media about Devin Thomas (wanting to get away from football in the offseason, etc., etc.) it appears that this ain't happening. I think the defense has some potential leaders, like London Fletcher. Yet still you have situations with veterans like Shawn Springs, skipping OTAs and working out on his own (I'm not sure this happened last offseason, but it has in the past). Sadly, this appears to be Clinton Portis' team, and the problem with that is that Portis is two outrageous comments from becoming a T.O. or a Chad Johnson. You'll see if many of the successful teams, there is an established veteran leadership among players (Brady in NE, Manning in Indy, Ray Lewis in Baltimore), I'm just not seeing that in our team. I fear that this leadership vacuum is going to cause the team to blow up if and when they have a losing season. __________________ R.I.P. #21

01-09-2009, 12:19 PM	#33
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: More Portis Portis gives 100% every Sunday when he's steps on the field, no matter how hurt he is and whether he has the ball. He never lets up from whistle to whistle. As far as on-field effort, you can't ask for more. That said, even though he later apparently apologized for his comments, he needs to stop. Or someone needs to tell him to stop. Start fining him for appearing on the John Thompson show, or something like that. He's frustrated, we all get that. But he's not the only one on that team furstrated. He will do anything to win, that's great. But so will a lot of other people on that team. And this really exposes Snyder's biggest weakness. I get that he wants to take care of his star, a lot of owners do that. But you have to separate the aura of being around famous football players with the responsibilities of being the boss. Snyder has a bad habit of trying to be one of the guys by bowing down to a player and giving them whatever they want, sometimes at the expense of the rest of the organization. He did it with Darrell Green, with Bruce Smith, and now he might be doing it with Portis. He needs to put his foot down. As for the running game, from day one Zorn (I think it was him) had said that the season would start with the same running schemes of Gibbs/Bugel and gradually it would evolve to co-exist effectively with the WCO. So yeah things didn't stay the same throughout, though that was hardly as big an issue as I think Portis is making it out to be, but that was to be expected. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

01-09-2009, 12:37 PM	#36
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 45 Posts: 10,069	Re: More Portis Zorn's play calling the last half of the season was trash, he couldn't adjust his sweat pants let alone the Redskins offense. I hope he has learned how to adjust. Portis has a big mouth but he's not responsible for the 2-6 finish. That's all Zorn even if Portis was getting 3.5 yards per carry. You see the f'ing game plans against the Steelers, Ravens, Cowboys? Trash!!!! __________________ "The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder." -Jenkins

01-09-2009, 12:42 PM	#37
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Re: More Portis Hey Portis, SHUT UP! The offensive line rarely got you to the second level, and if they did -- you didn't break any tackles. The reason this offense sputtered is because our passing game was non-existent. Even if we threw a pass it seemed like it was off-target or it was dropped. Secondly, our play calling was starting to move back to the Gibbs era. Run, Run, Pass (short of the chains), Punt every series. 342 carries, 3rd in the NFL, and it wasn't enough? That was the reason for our collapse? Clinton Portis is really starting to bug me, and he's becoming a cancer. I wish Zorn would have dealt with him like Tomlin dealt with Tony Parker. The big issue is it's going to be a few years before we can part ways with him because of the contract. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

01-09-2009, 01:25 PM	#43
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 60 Posts: 15,817	Re: More Portis Well Portis did a follow up to this and said that the coach staff in the middle of the season just kind of blew off stump Mitchell and anything he tried to say or do in regards to the running game. I agree Portis should not air his difference in public but I don't think he said anything about the coaching staff that other player don't feel themself. Also the other players know that Portis come in each Sunday and gives 110% so I don't think they will get to down on him and what he says unless he starts calling out players by name. He also gave props to the line and other players and theses statement he made where more toward Zorn and the coaching staff.

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