New Poster Making People Mad

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Of course the defensive problems aren't his fault, but putting up three points(six if Hall makes the field goal) basically means the defense has to play lights out in order to win the game. So yes, the team has been inconsistent as a whole, but his performance (100 passing yards...) is almost entirely his fault.

Everything goes hand in hand.

Maybe if the 'D' could have gotten off the field a few more times, the offense could have gotten something going. They didn't have to play lights out, just get off the damn field once in a while.

[Daseal]

Matty, according to NFL radio ex-players, coaches, and personel people say what Dallas and the Giants did agaisnt us was to play a Cover 2 shallow scheme. Basically play us close to the line, lots of people in the way of the short pass, which opens up the deep pass a bit more. Granted, you'd like to have man coverage all the time, but rarely are you that lucky.

When Spurrier was here you were constantly harping on the offense, the second Gibbs took the reigns you expected the defense to win us the game. Even when the defense played well but collapsed on the last drive of the game after being on the field most of the game due to a complete and udder inept offense. While our defense takes a huge share in this blame, it's also the offenses job to give them a rest. When it gets late in a game and the defense sees our O go 3 and out before they have time to catch their breath, it makes playing lights out hard.

Our offense needs to find something, and soon. Personally I'd love to see Brandon Lloyd well.. do anything. It doesn't seem like they toss the ball his way too often. He has some playmaking ability. I'm not a fan of Brunell, I've never hidden that. Last week, there were some real problems with protection at times, and we know Brunell folds like a lawn chair under pressure. So that was to be expected. However, some of his worst plays came when he expected there to be pressure when he had time. Woody Paige made a good point on Cold Pizza today as it related to Drew Bledsoe. Parcells came out, blamed the offensive line for not giving protection. Woody said we all knew what this Cowboy's line was when they came into the year, you're asking a unit who isn't a great squad to block for a QB that needs time in the pocket to play well, then blame the line that you know would struggle coming in? Maybe if Tony Romo was in, a player who can avoid pressure and take some blame off of the offensive line came in, he would be able to do much more. It's tough for me to put all the blame on the offensive line when Brunell won't stand in the pocket and deliver the ball.

I think Brunell's adequate to "win" with the defense we had. He's not serviceable to win without a defense. He's not a gunslinger. He's an extremely conservative game manager. Sometimes a few more turnovers are worth the bonus of extra points.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

C'mon I know it's hard but you have to at least give the guy some credit for having the sack to make that throw. Yes Moss made the play, but Brunell made a ballsy throw. Moss gets the majority of the credit there, but I tip my hat to Brunell. I wish he took more chances like that.

i do give him credit. I give him credit for throwing it to Moss past the line of schrimmage, and i give him credit for throwing it over the first defender.

i of course also wish he took more chances, but not necessarily just like that. there's a whole middle of the field he could throw to as well (Dallas, Dallas) that the very common Cover-2 isn't totally geared to stop like his sideline throws.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

To beat the cover 2 you need attack the gap between the safeties in the middle of the field.

oop, you just said it yourself. and that's where Brunell statistically throws the least than any other QB.

[MTK]

I don't expect either side of the ball to win us the game, I expect both sides to play well and contribute. Against the Giants both sides of the ball let us down. I see the need to point fingers at individuals when as a team we played so poorly.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Everything goes hand in hand.

Maybe if the 'D' could have gotten off the field a few more times, the offense could have gotten something going. They didn't have to play lights out, just get off the damn field once in a while.

you're right but the defense lost two key personnel, and is starting with a bunch of struggling new guys. we all knew that coming in.

what's the offense's excuse?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

oop, you just said it yourself. and that's where Brunell statistically throws the least than any other QB.

There are also natural holes in the coverage outside of the hashes.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

you're right but the defense lost two key personnel, and is starting with a bunch of struggling new guys. we all knew that coming in.

what's the offense's excuse?

There is no excuse. They played like crap. But it's not like Brunell was the only one stinking up the joint.

[JWsleep]

I agree with Matty here. It's hard to argue that the whole team was flat as cna be on Sunday.

That being said, Brunnell is not the kind of QB to win you games on his own (though he did it gainst Dallas last year). And that's not his role here. The coaches know what they have, and I think they schemed very well for Brunnell against Jax. You coach to your players--that how it's done. I think Campbell will ultimately give them lots more options in the passing game (and I'm sure Gibbs thinks so too--that's why he traded up for him). But right now everything is geared towards making it work with MB. Changing now would be a big deal, and most likely unhelpful in the short-term. If we see a game where everyone else is kicking butt and MB is woeful (and we did in 2004), then things change. But that's not what happened on Sunday in NY, IMO.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

There is no excuse. They played like crap. But it's not like Brunell was the only one stinking up the joint.

yeah the O-Line obviously struggled. but we were up against a rested Umenyiora and Strahan, we also knew that coming in. when a part of the team is struggling, another has to come up and make some PLAYS, even if they are risky. Brunell clearly can't do that anymore, and honestly didn't even try.

if Brunell doesn't try, that means Moss, Lloyd, Randle El, and Cooley can't either. result: LOSS

- EDIT: ok, he TRIED to escape the sacks (like he used to be able to do) but he didn't try enough passes downfield regardless of risk towards the end of the game.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

That being said, Brunnell is not the kind of QB to win you games on his own (though he did it gainst Dallas last year). And that's not his role here. The coaches know what they have, and I think they schemed very well for Brunnell against Jax. You coach to your players--that how it's done. I think Campbell will ultimately give them lots more options in the passing game (and I'm sure Gibbs thinks so too--that's why he traded up for him). But right now everything is geared towards making it work with MB. Changing now would be a big deal, and most likely unhelpful in the short-term. If we see a game where everyone else is kicking butt and MB is woeful (and we did in 2004), then things change. But that's not what happened on Sunday in NY, IMO.

er, i think Moss's unique gifts as a receiver were just as responsible for the Dallas game as Brunell. i think the combination of the two can be VERY powerful, but its way underused.

it's also impossible for 'everyone' to kick ass if they don't get the ball. maybe Randle El could physically throw to himself, but the others sure couldn't.

[Schneed10]

Tinkering with our QB situation right now would be pointless, because Jason Campbell does not represent an upgrade over Brunell at the current time.

So there's no use banging our heads against the wall about Brunell. He is what he is. Accurate when given time, gets shut down when pressured.

Since you can't do much about your QB right now, you've got no choice but to plan to play with him. To make Brunell successful, the line HAS to block very well. Our offense depends upon the line, not on Mark Brunell. If the line gives him time, Brunell's going to do what all average NFL QBs can do: deliver the ball.

If there's one thing we've learned over the last few years it is that Brunell is consistent within situations. When he's hurt, he's horrible. When he's healthy and has time, he operates the offense very well (just like most QBs can do). And when he's pressured he dumps the ball off avoiding turnovers, and punting over and over.

The throw-away and punt strategy usually works better when you have a defense that can get the ball back and get off the field. But when you have a defense playing like swiss cheese, Brunell's throw-aways become a bigger issue.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Tinkering with our QB situation right now would be pointless, because Jason Campbell does not represent an upgrade over Brunell at the current time.

So there's no use banging our heads against the wall about Brunell. He is what he is. Accurate when given time, gets shut down when pressured.

Since you can't do much about your QB right now, you've got no choice but to plan to play with him. To make Brunell successful, the line HAS to block very well. Our offense depends upon the line, not on Mark Brunell. If the line gives him time, Brunell's going to do what all average NFL QBs can do: deliver the ball.

If there's one thing we've learned over the last few years it is that Brunell is consistent within situations. When he's hurt, he's horrible. When he's healthy and has time, he operates the offense very well (just like most QBs can do). And when he's pressured he dumps the ball off avoiding turnovers, and punting over and over.

The throw-away and punt strategy usually works better when you have a defense that can get the ball back and get off the field. But when you have a defense playing like swiss cheese, Brunell's throw-aways become a bigger issue.

Well said.

Brunell is what he is. He's not a QB that's going to win games for you all by himself. I've said it before and I'll say it again, his play mirrors that of the players around him. When the offense is playing well as a unit, chances are he also plays well. When the unit stinks like last week, he's going to stink.

If you're waiting for Brunell to magically become Peyton Manning overnight, keep dreaming because it isn't going to happen.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

Apparently, those five minutes of football solidified him as the starter for the rest of his career, no matter how inconsistent he plays. How many sub par performances does he get for one miracle comeback in two and a half seasons?

I guess you are right, after all he is still the starter and there are no plans to replace him this year anyway.

Really he is not the problem here. Everybody wanted Brunell's head after the first two games, then after the next two games it was all about breaking Gannon's record for consecutive completions in a game, then putting up 36 points on a number three defense. Then all of a sudden we get into another divisional game against the team that, by the way won our division last year, a team that has a pretty good defense themselves, in their house, after a bye week, with their backs against the wall, and we lose...Aaaah it's Brunell, and he sucks, blah, blah, blah.

It was not Brunell's fault we lost. It was the offensive line's inconsistencies, the secondary's poor coverage at times, the defensive line's lack of pressure on Eli, the missed field goals, suspect play calling at times. As a TEAM they need to get better, and as the team gets better so does Brunell.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The throw-away and punt strategy usually works better when you have a defense that can get the ball back and get off the field. But when you have a defense playing like swiss cheese, Brunell's throw-aways become a bigger issue.

That is a very good point, Schneed! In fact, in may be one of the best posts I've read since the season started. The offense can't rely on the defense to keep them in the game as it stands now. Saunders is going to have to open it up a little bit and take some chances. We have extremely talented playmakers and it needs to be a case of "you versus me, let's see who's better."