Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by That Guy

auto industry bailouts, bank bailouts, defense bailouts... all of these cause by bad ceo level leadership and greedy mortgage bankers that ended up costing us all a lot of money.

and it's silly that i'd pay a 24%+ effective tax rate while those (like letterman) who get free money from subsidized farming, and others that hide money in off shore accounts and use low taxed investment income etc pay 15-18% even though they make 5-100x more than me. fair share and all.

I thought all that money was paid back with interest. LMAO

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I thought all that money was paid back with interest. LMAO

Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

Bailout Scorecard | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica




Name me another business in the real world that has been bailed out tax payers because it's rich entitled CEOs made poor ass decisions so they could bank a buck or two?

Like I said, when rich people make bad decisions, the poor people pay for them as well as their own.


Just like you. If you made horrible decisions at your work, would you eat the costs or would you pass them on? My guess is you'd lay off people, cut your costs to make up for that stupid decision. Again, the poor people paying for the mistakes of the upper echelon. (not claiming you are such, just using it as an example)

[firstdown]

[quote=NC_Skins;918383]Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times

Bailout Scorecard | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica




Name me another business in the real world that has been bailed out tax payers because it's rich entitled CEOs made poor ass decisions so they could bank a buck or two?

Like I said, when rich people make bad decisions, the poor people pay for them as well as their own.


Just like you. If you made horrible decisions at your work, would you eat the costs or would you pass them on? My guess is you'd lay off people, cut your costs to make up for that stupid decision. Again, the poor people paying for the mistakes of the upper echelon. (not claiming you are such, just using it as an example)[/quote

Its only a stupid decision if you do not learn from your mistake.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Its only a stupid decision if you do not learn from your mistake.

Dodging like a mofo. Since you didn't disagree with that assessment that the poor people pay for the rich people's mistakes, that kind of nullifies your gripe about poor people.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Dodging like a mofo. Since you didn't disagree with that assessment that the poor people pay for the rich people's mistakes, that kind of nullifies your gripe about poor people.

Well 50% of Americans (mainly the poor) don't pay federal taxes so how did they help bail out the rich. I don't have a gripe with the poor I was just stating the truth.

[That Guy]

this is silly, if you can get some facts, great, but i'm not going to debate your unsupported opinions if you feel like saying your right is good enough to prove your point on its own.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I'd say my bottom 20% of low income customers have more trafic violations then the other 80% of customers.

Question, how exactly do you know what they make? My insurance agent or company has no clue what I make, nor is it any of their business. So how are you making claims like this to begin with?

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well 50% of Americans (mainly the poor) don't pay federal taxes so how did they help bail out the rich. I don't have a gripe with the poor I was just stating the truth.

I hate to break the bad news to you bro, but the middle class are poor now. That's right. The gap between the ultra rich and the middle class opened up tremendously over the past 20 years due in part to crooked politicians taking bribes(aka..campaign donations). Even so, got any numbers to support that statement?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins;918616[B

]Question, how exactly do you know what they make?[/B] My insurance agent or company has no clue what I make, nor is it any of their business. So how are you making claims like this to begin with?




I hate to break the bad news to you bro, but the middle class are poor now. That's right. The gap between the ultra rich and the middle class opened up tremendously over the past 20 years due in part to crooked politicians taking bribes(aka..campaign donations). Even so, got any numbers to support that statement?

A good insurance agent knows his clients and what types of protection they need to protect their assets and personal belongings. Anyone can write a auto or home owners policy but understanding clients other needs take asking questions. Some of my customers don't want to take a review but 90% do so I know what they make for a living.

As far as the middle class now the poor that's just plan old stupid. I'm middle class and I'm far from being poor. A simple search you will find thounsands of articles talking about the 47% that pay no taxes. So I here is a clip from CNN which is no right wing news outlet.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most people think they pay too much to Uncle Sam, but for some people it simply is not true.
In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.
The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero -- or less -- is on the rise. The center's original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

47% of households owe no tax - and their ranks are growing - Sep. 30, 2009

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

As far as the middle class now the poor that's just plan old stupid. I'm middle class and I'm far from being poor. A simple search you will find thounsands of articles talking about the 47% that pay no taxes. So I here is a clip from CNN which is no right wing news outlet.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most people think they pay too much to Uncle Sam, but for some people it simply is not true.
In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.
The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero -- or less -- is on the rise. The center's original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

47% of households owe no tax - and their ranks are growing - Sep. 30, 2009

1) That article was 3 years ago.
2) They are referring to households. (aka..married couples and families)

47% of the households making less than 50K have 0 liability. That's a far different claim than saying 50% of the American people aren't paying federal taxes.


Just curious, but how do you suggest a family of four or five to live off below 50K per year?

Food, rent, car, insurance, clothes, school supplies, college tuition, retirement, gas,...and so on and so on.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

1) That article was 3 years ago.
2) They are referring to households. (aka..married couples and families)

47% of the households making less than 50K have 0 liability. That's a far different claim than saying 50% of the American people aren't paying federal taxes.


Just curious, but how do you suggest a family of four or five to live off below 50K per year?

Food, rent, car, insurance, clothes, school supplies, college tuition, retirement, gas,...and so on and so on.

Sorry the number is still the same in 2011.

TPC Tax Topics | Who Doesn't Pay Federal Taxes?


As far as living off 50K per year that would not be very hard in our area. In the 80's when I was a single father trying to get my career started I made maybe $13,000 per year and made ends meet.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Sorry the number is still the same in 2011.

TPC Tax Topics | Who Doesn't Pay Federal Taxes?


As far as living off 50K per year that would not be very hard in our area. In the 80's when I was a single father trying to get my career started I made maybe $13,000 per year and made ends meet.

Again, Households. HOUSEHOLDS. FAMILIES. What you said and what you are showing are two different things. The notion that a family of four or five living off of LESS than 50k a year after the stuff I mentioned isn't believable. Maybe if you live in a run down rat hole, and roll through it without insurance.


Also, calling shens on you supporting a family off of 13K, even during the 80s.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by firstdown

.............when I was a single father trying to get my career started I made maybe $13,000 per year and made ends meet.

Living in a van, down by the river?

[Daseal]

Also, there's a big difference between not owing taxes and not paying taxes. Personally, I take 0 deductions on my pay check. I'd rather not pay anything at the end of the year, and I'm okay giving uncle sam a loan for a few months. Just because I get money back at the end of the year doesn't mean I didn't pay my fair share of taxes, it meant I paid more than my fair share (by current standards).

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Again, Households. HOUSEHOLDS. FAMILIES. What you said and what you are showing are two different things. The notion that a family of four or five living off of LESS than 50k a year after the stuff I mentioned isn't believable. Maybe if you live in a run down rat hole, and roll through it without insurance.


Also, calling shens on you supporting a family off of 13K, even during the 80s.

You can say what you want but I did have to raise a child for a few years making 13k. In life you have to do what you have to do to make things work.

I have seen it worded both ways and I'm not 100% sure which is the correct number.

Who Pays Taxes? Not As Many As You Think : NPR

Taxes are commonly referred to as one of life's certainties. You know what the other one is. And tomorrow is when Americans pay their federal income taxes. For many of us, the biggest single tax bill we see is at the bottom of an IRS 1040 form. For many of us, but not for all of us.
For many Americans, the Social Security and Medicare taxes take a bigger chunk of their income than the income tax does. And for quite a few Americans, that's a low threshold to clear since they don't pay any federal income tax at all.
Roberton Williams is a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center, used to work on tax analysis at the Congressional Budget Office. And Mr. Williams' finding has gone viral. Let me ask you, now, how many Americans don't pay any federal income tax? And generally speaking, who are those people?
Mr. ROBERTON WILLIAMS (Senior Fellow, Tax Policy Center): By our estimate, about 47 percent of Americans will not pay any federal income tax for 2009. The people involved in that tend to be families with children, the elderly, low income households, those who either have too little income to pay taxes or who benefit enough from all the deductions, credits and exemptions in the income tax, so they're zeroed out on the bottom line of their 1040.
SIEGEL: And that number, 47 percent, is up from just a couple of years ago. What's the trend? By how much is it up and why?
Mr. WILLIAMS: Well, in 2007, just 38 percent of Americans didn't pay tax. It jumped to 49 percent for 2008, and 47 percent this year, primarily because of the stimulus bills that we've put in place trying to get the economy going again. In 2008, President Bush's stimulus payments sent $600 to individuals, $1,200 to couples, plus a little bit more if you had kids, and that all showed up as a tax reduction when you filed your income taxes.
This year we have the 2009 stimulus, which includes making work pay. Almost every American who works got benefit from that and a few other things that bring down tax bills.

[That Guy]

by the way, for a few years while i was in the air force i didn't owe taxes... a lot of my money came in tax free pay (BAH/BAS) and SS etc was taken out before i ever saw a cent. after deductions and all that. I guess that means i should have quit SOC and gotten a real job :P