Is Ramsey Going To Get A Fair Shot?

skinsfanthru&thru · 05-09-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Because this is Ramsey's team and it's a shot in his pride and will make him resent the orginization. Don't give me that "well, it's the NFL" type of shit. He gave his all for this team last year and I think he deserves to be the incumbant starter. As I said, it's his team to lose. Not his team to win.

i realy like ramsey and hope he can use this time to work on his flaws, but just because a qb takes a pounding while putting up slightly above average stats, shouldn't make him the starter by default. especially when they've brought in a much more proven and talented qb who still has some gas in the tank. didn't hasselback give his all for the team last year when he got put in, so does that mean he should be in the running for the starting job? that's their jobs, it doesn't make them the better choice to help the team win. if ramsey plays how we hope he can this summer than we will be seeing him start sometime this year with or without an injury to brunnel, but right now at this given moment, brunnel is the better qb to help this team win right away and thats what i care about rather than a player's pride and ego. 6 wins out of 15(i'm not counting the miami game where he got hurt very early in the game) starts doesn't really scream out starter by default to me and i hope he can use the time while brunnel starts to first and foremost completely recover from his foot surgery and then work on his game footage studies and his pocket awareness and timing. the coaches know a little bit more about the current skills of the two qbs than us right now and there's a reason gibbs worked so hard and gave up as much as they did to bring in brunnel so i'll take my chances trusting gibbs' judgement.

Daseal · 05-09-2004, 04:09 PM

So, had the defense actually held once and a while and we made or narrowly missed the playoff's you'd be for Ramsey? He put points on the board, our defense is what killed us last year. We couldn't seem to ever hold a team when it was important.

I didn't say he should be handed the starting spot, but Brunell should have to take it, not have Ramsey take it from Brunell.

skinsfanthru&thru · 05-09-2004, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

So, had the defense actually held once and a while and we made or narrowly missed the playoff's you'd be for Ramsey? He put points on the board, our defense is what killed us last year. We couldn't seem to ever hold a team when it was important.

I didn't say he should be handed the starting spot, but Brunell should have to take it, not have Ramsey take it from Brunell.

yeah u have a point that the defense more often than not didn't do squat, but one of ramsey main weaknesses(holding onto the ball too long) led to way too many fumbles and a few of them happened within the skins half of the field. 17 fumbles with 10 being lost in 2 years, is way too many for a qb standing in the pocket. i know some of those were do to bad blocking, but he still needs to develop better awareness and get rid of the ball or atleast cover up better.

Hogskin · 05-09-2004, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

but one of ramsey main weaknesses(holding onto the ball too long) led to way too many fumbles and a few of them happened within the skins half of the field. 17 fumbles with 10 being lost in 2 years, is way too many for a qb standing in the pocket.

Skinsfan, you are right on the mark with this one. The absolute best thing for RAMSEY right now is to get some time learning under an experienced QB. He is clearly not "quite" ready for prime time. Some more sideline time will actually give him his best shot at having a long, successful NFL career. And as far as the nonsense about his ego, does anyone really buy that media invention? There may have been one or two extreme situations over many, many years where that was a contributing factor in a QB's demise. (And it had to be a guy with an inherent lack of confidence to begin with). But every year the media hauls it out dozens of times - every time there is a QB swap. C'mon - they are not 10-year-old girls. If they are tough enough to play in the NFL, they better be able to handle some bench time while they learn. This happens at every other position, but only the QB's get tagged as having such fragile egos. I don't buy it for one second. Gibbs has stated they will get an equal shot - how could anything be more fair than that? Anyone that wants to be given an "advantage" over his competition in winning a starting shot does not have the best interests of the team in mind!

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues
Home of "The Best Game In Town" since 1990

Daseal · 05-09-2004, 08:58 PM

Because QBs are the leaders of the offense. That's why people make a big deal for it. A QB controversey isn't good for anyone.

Hogskin · 05-09-2004, 10:33 PM

There you go again - another media deal. Every time a QB change takes place, it is a "QB controversy". You need to stop buying in to so much nonsense. If you went by these "ego" and "controversy" guidelines, once a QB got to start a game, the job would be his for life. That's not the way it works (thank God) - in the NFL or anyplace else. Let the performance speak for itself. Fortunately, we again have a coach that operates that way. A QB controversy is not created by a change in the starting QB. 90% of the time it is created by the MEDIA, and the rest of the time by the fans, as in Sonny vs. Billy. That was one of only a handfull of real "QB controversies" I have seen in 55 years of following the NFL. They are rare.

Don't sweat this QB competition, Daseal - Gibbs really does know what he is doing, and it will work out for the best. He knows both players and their skills/shortcomings MUCH better than any of us, and he is one of the best decision makers I have ever seen. There is no "perfect" coach, but he is damn close. Just be cool, sit back, and watch a great man in action. He brought an amazing amount of enjoyment to me (and many other Redskin fans) the last time around.

John Shaffer
National Fantasy Sports Leagues
Home of "The Best Game In Town" since 1990

Daseal · 05-09-2004, 11:08 PM

I don't think it's all media hype. Quarterback controversy means there are two options at QB that can be choosen, and I am saying that it can have some bad chemistry on a team. I don't know how you can just blame this on the "media." I'm not saying we have fist fights in the locker room, but you'll have your team taking sides as to who they want starting. I think they can cause problems and hurt feelings. These guys are human, don't forget that. If you're doing your job and they bring in another guy to do it after you gave your all to a company, you might be a little put out too.

JoeRedskin · 05-10-2004, 09:51 AM

Is everyone ready for a shocker? I am in 100% agreement with Daseal.

For all his faults, Ramsey won his teammates over by standing in and being a man - took the hits, took the crap, didn't point fingers. They respect him and believe in him. While I was not a fan of his off season whine about wanting to be traded, I think he earned the right to say "It's my job - you have to take it from me." Everyone here pretty here much seems to be in agreement that it's Brunnell's job to lose. Well, why should that be? Didn't Ramsey take the hits? Didn't Ramsey say he needed to play better? Didn't Ramsey play injured?

If Ramsey's skills as a passer and qb are really less than those of Brunnell (including the experience factor), then let Brunell prove it. Given what he has done and, equally as important, HOW he has done it, this should be Ramsey's team.

If he's good enough - Brunnell should be the one who has to outshine Ramsey.

Don't get me wrong - while I really like Ramsey, I think the critiques of him are basically valid - slow delivery and recognition. How much of that was systematic and how much was inherent lack of ability only time will tell. Remember, Spurrier's system was very different than any other in the league and from most college programs (certainly from Tulane's shotgun offense). In the Spurrier system, QB's had an entirely different way of progressing through reads - through areas on the field rather than by route. Also, the QB was charged with recognizing the defense (a skill that takes most NFL QB's, even good ones, years to perfect) and calling the play at the line based on that recognition. Basically, Spurrier put the entire weight of the offense's success on the QB. I am not sure any young QB could succeed in it on an NFL level (maybe NO QB could). That Ramsey had any success in this system, I think, speaks volumes for his abilities.

I am hoping that Ramsey's failings were do more to the system than due to an inherent lack of ability. Regardless, until he is "shown up", I think the team (certainly the line) will resent the fact that he is being replaced.

BleedBurgundy · 05-10-2004, 10:10 AM

Well put, JoeRedskin. I agree completely. I truly want to see what we have in Ramsey. But, like everyone else, I trust Coach Gibbs to make the right call.

Defensewins · 05-10-2004, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

I don't think it's all media hype. Quarterback controversy means there are two options at QB that can be choosen, and I am saying that it can have some bad chemistry on a team. I don't know how you can just blame this on the "media." I'm not saying we have fist fights in the locker room, but you'll have your team taking sides as to who they want starting. I think they can cause problems and hurt feelings. These guys are human, don't forget that. If you're doing your job and they bring in another guy to do it after you gave your all to a company, you might be a little put out too.

Daseal
QB controversy is bad when you have two terrible QB's and a losing team.
However, when you have two good QB's and a winning team, it is called depth. It is a good thing. The Redskins currently have the second scenario. Just because the QB you like is not the starter does not make it a QB controversy.
I just moved from Boston, after living there for the last five years.
The 2001 Pats won their first superbowl with Brady and Bledsoe on the same team. I can tell you most of Boston wanted Bledsoe to start during the Superbowl. Pat's coach had to actually anounce that Brady would start the SB. This after Brady got them there, and there were plenty of Pats fans that were upset that Bledsoe did not get the nod in the SB.
Even a poll taken after the the SB, it was 50-50 on who should start the next year. This after Brady won the Superbowl, so I understand your loyalty to Ramsey. None of this fan and media controversy prevented the Pats from winning two SB's.
I just think maybe your frustration over Ramsey not being named the starter and anger over the situation has clouded any chance for you to have an unbiased judgement on the QB issue. Every player on a losing team has to EARN their starting job. Especially one with a new coaching staff. This is not a playoff team and Ramsey is not a former probowl QB. All this talk of Ramsey "will be" a future MVP, probowl player, etc. is all talk. This has not happened yet. Ramsey is just an above average QB with a ton of potential.

05-09-2004, 04:09 PM	#32
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	So, had the defense actually held once and a while and we made or narrowly missed the playoff's you'd be for Ramsey? He put points on the board, our defense is what killed us last year. We couldn't seem to ever hold a team when it was important. I didn't say he should be handed the starting spot, but Brunell should have to take it, not have Ramsey take it from Brunell.

05-09-2004, 08:58 PM	#35
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Because QBs are the leaders of the offense. That's why people make a big deal for it. A QB controversey isn't good for anyone.

05-09-2004, 10:33 PM	#36
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	There you go again - another media deal. Every time a QB change takes place, it is a "QB controversy". You need to stop buying in to so much nonsense. If you went by these "ego" and "controversy" guidelines, once a QB got to start a game, the job would be his for life. That's not the way it works (thank God) - in the NFL or anyplace else. Let the performance speak for itself. Fortunately, we again have a coach that operates that way. A QB controversy is not created by a change in the starting QB. 90% of the time it is created by the MEDIA, and the rest of the time by the fans, as in Sonny vs. Billy. That was one of only a handfull of real "QB controversies" I have seen in 55 years of following the NFL. They are rare. Don't sweat this QB competition, Daseal - Gibbs really does know what he is doing, and it will work out for the best. He knows both players and their skills/shortcomings MUCH better than any of us, and he is one of the best decision makers I have ever seen. There is no "perfect" coach, but he is damn close. Just be cool, sit back, and watch a great man in action. He brought an amazing amount of enjoyment to me (and many other Redskin fans) the last time around. John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues Home of "The Best Game In Town" since 1990

05-09-2004, 11:08 PM	#37
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I don't think it's all media hype. Quarterback controversy means there are two options at QB that can be choosen, and I am saying that it can have some bad chemistry on a team. I don't know how you can just blame this on the "media." I'm not saying we have fist fights in the locker room, but you'll have your team taking sides as to who they want starting. I think they can cause problems and hurt feelings. These guys are human, don't forget that. If you're doing your job and they bring in another guy to do it after you gave your all to a company, you might be a little put out too.

05-10-2004, 09:51 AM	#38
JoeRedskin Contains football related knowledge Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Second Star On The Right Age: 61 Posts: 10,401	Is everyone ready for a shocker? I am in 100% agreement with Daseal. For all his faults, Ramsey won his teammates over by standing in and being a man - took the hits, took the crap, didn't point fingers. They respect him and believe in him. While I was not a fan of his off season whine about wanting to be traded, I think he earned the right to say "It's my job - you have to take it from me." Everyone here pretty here much seems to be in agreement that it's Brunnell's job to lose. Well, why should that be? Didn't Ramsey take the hits? Didn't Ramsey say he needed to play better? Didn't Ramsey play injured? If Ramsey's skills as a passer and qb are really less than those of Brunnell (including the experience factor), then let Brunell prove it. Given what he has done and, equally as important, HOW he has done it, this should be Ramsey's team. If he's good enough - Brunnell should be the one who has to outshine Ramsey. Don't get me wrong - while I really like Ramsey, I think the critiques of him are basically valid - slow delivery and recognition. How much of that was systematic and how much was inherent lack of ability only time will tell. Remember, Spurrier's system was very different than any other in the league and from most college programs (certainly from Tulane's shotgun offense). In the Spurrier system, QB's had an entirely different way of progressing through reads - through areas on the field rather than by route. Also, the QB was charged with recognizing the defense (a skill that takes most NFL QB's, even good ones, years to perfect) and calling the play at the line based on that recognition. Basically, Spurrier put the entire weight of the offense's success on the QB. I am not sure any young QB could succeed in it on an NFL level (maybe NO QB could). That Ramsey had any success in this system, I think, speaks volumes for his abilities. I am hoping that Ramsey's failings were do more to the system than due to an inherent lack of ability. Regardless, until he is "shown up", I think the team (certainly the line) will resent the fact that he is being replaced.

05-10-2004, 10:10 AM	#39
BleedBurgundy Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,471	Well put, JoeRedskin. I agree completely. I truly want to see what we have in Ramsey. But, like everyone else, I trust Coach Gibbs to make the right call.

Is Ramsey Going To Get A Fair Shot?

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