Republicans rally against 'war on religious freedom'

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

To prove the existence of God you disprove the need for faith. If God's existence could be "proven" through forensic evidence, then his existence couldn't be questioned and the choice to follow him/her/it would be removed. In essence, we would be nothing morre than pets of an benign omipotent being. Very simply, that is not the God I in whom I believe (I have been through this before but can't find the posts).

Fine, belief in an entity that escapes definition of finite minds is the same as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. How could I be so blind?

As for the rest, aethist or religious, stupid is as stupid does. Judge not lest you be judged and he (or in this case, she) who can discern the ultimate truth underlying existence is either a far wiser person than I ever will be or an idiot.

For those who choose not to believe, fine. It is your choice, insulting the intelligence of all those with faith strikes me as the same intolerance of which you complain.

In the absence of science, there will always be something we fill that void with, and a all supreme being is generally what people tend to fill it with.


I think you took what I said and ran with it. Insulting the intelligence of those that have faith? Hardly. Putting their intelligence in perspective. Most definitely. Again, most people that believe in man made fairy tales are ridiculed and made fun of, even by some of the same people that also believe in a fairy tale themselves. (aka..christians) The fact is, both Santa Claus and the Bible were man made creations, based of some truth and history. Why is faith in one real, but not the other? There is no distinction regardless of what anybody thinks.

Intolerant? I think you are barking up the wrong tree with that accusation. In fact, I'm probably the most tolerant person you'll come across when it comes to ones beliefs. My general rule of thumb is if it doesn't affect me, or harm others in any way, I'm fine with whatever you want to do.

I don't look down on religious people, nor do I shun them. I grew up in a Christian home, and went to a private Christian school the majority of my youth. I know the Bible, I understand the belief as I used to believe and practice it myself. I sit here and still laugh at your accusation of intolerant, when my best friend actually believes the zombie apocalypse is coming. Yes, he believes the dead will rise (either by god or man made chemicals) at some point in time. Now as ignorant as this sounds, he still remains to be my best friend and I will always have his back.

Believing in god doesn't make you stupid, but it's hard to not question ones decision making when their lives and actions are based around something that may simply not exist. Believe it or not, some people would call this psychotic if it involved something other than "god". (aka..invisible friends)

I don't look down on either person. Choose to believe in Santa Claus or God. Doesn't make any difference, but lets not call one guy crazy and the other one enlightened.

[NC_Skins]

Home | Neil deGrasse Tyson

You all should follow this guy. A astrophysicist, a brilliant mind and a absolute joy to listen to.

[NC_Skins]

Speaking of "insulting". It amazes me that many people with faith often think atheists or agnostics lack morality. It's like they think that you cannot have morals without a spiritual guidance helping you out. As noted here. Idiot Bill Oreily tries to infer that Hitler and Stalin did the things they did because they were atheists which lead to their lack of morality.




Casting stones from glass houses.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

In the absence of science, there will always be something we fill that void with, and a all supreme being is generally what people tend to fill it with.


I think you took what I said and ran with it. Insulting the intelligence of those that have faith? Hardly. Putting their intelligence in perspective. Most definitely. Again, most people that believe in man made fairy tales are ridiculed and made fun of, even by some of the same people that also believe in a fairy tale themselves. (aka..christians) The fact is, both Santa Claus and the Bible were man made creations, based of some truth and history. Why is faith in one real, but not the other? There is no distinction regardless of what anybody thinks.

Comparing the Bible and Santa is not a fair analogy. Santa is a myth created. The Bible is not a myth but a tangible object.

The Bible is a man made creation - true enough. In fact, it was a book by committee if you will. The Bible, however, is not God. It is simply an attempt to describe the infinite through history, symbolism, poetry and parable. Ultimately, it is an attempt by finite minds to expand their limited means (words/language) beyond their defined terms in order to aid in the search for truth. Further, since its writing people have argued, discussed, contemplated, etc. over what is the "real" ness portrayed in the Bible.

The real analogy you assert is that God, as described in the Bible, and Santa are equivalent man made creations. Whereas one is an acknowledged myth whose tangible, finite existence (living at the North Pole, travelling by flying reindeer, etc.) can actually be disproven by known science, the God described in the Bible (certainly the one I believe in) exists beyond the finite and cannot be not defined or described by science. [Don't get me wrong, science gives incredible insight into the being I know as God and when legitimate science disproves aspects of my faith, I accept the science and reflect on the effect it has on my understanding of the creator. Ultimately, if your understanding of God is contradicted by legitimate science you're understanding needs to adjust. It's like they say in the army, when the map don't match the ground, go with the ground].

My point is that, while I believe no one's beliefs should be ridiculed (see my earlier statement about understanding the nature of the universe), I disagree with the assertion that all beliefs in supernatural beings (for lack of a better term) should be given equal credence. To assert that the belief in anthropomorhic Santa is the same as the belief in an infinite, undefinable being is just wrong. I claim no additional enlightment, I simply say that belief in a provable myth (i.e. we know from whence the created Santa comes and can disprove his existence as described) is different than the belief indefinable, infinite being (of whom, BTW, the mythological Santa was intended as is partial reflection).

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Intolerant? I think you are barking up the wrong tree with that accusation. In fact, I'm probably the most tolerant person you'll come across when it comes to ones beliefs. My general rule of thumb is if it doesn't affect me, or harm others in any way, I'm fine with whatever you want to do.

I don't look down on religious people, nor do I shun them. I grew up in a Christian home, and went to a private Christian school the majority of my youth. I know the Bible, I understand the belief as I used to believe and practice it myself. I sit here and still laugh at your accusation of intolerant, when my best friend actually believes the zombie apocalypse is coming. Yes, he believes the dead will rise (either by god or man made chemicals) at some point in time. Now as ignorant as this sounds, he still remains to be my best friend and I will always have his back.

Believing in god doesn't make you stupid, but it's hard to not question ones decision making when their lives and actions are based around something that may simply not exist. Believe it or not, some people would call this psychotic if it involved something other than "god". (aka..invisible friends).

Well, actually, Rat has on more than one occasion implied that the belief in God is merely a mental disease.

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

science is getting close to proving religion to be an addictive or flaw of the mind.

Perhaps, I should have said "intellectual intolerance" in the sense that I have encountered the claim that, with no knowledge how people came to their leap of faith (whatever it might be), any such leap is ultimately foolish. If that is not your belief, then the accusation of intolerance is not intended for you.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I don't look down on either person. Choose to believe in Santa Claus or God. Doesn't make any difference, but lets not call one guy crazy and the other one enlightened.

When it comes to crazy, as with stupid - crazy is as crazy does. Further, I would suggest that whether someone is "enlightened" or not is dependent on much more than their belief in God or Santa - it's the "why's" behind their belief that lead me to conclude someone is crazy or enlightened. I have known many an individual with beliefs I consider far fetched but whose underlying belief system displayed a much deeper thought, more rational thought than many a Christian I have known.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Speaking of "insulting". It amazes me that many people with faith often think atheists or agnostics lack morality. It's like they think that you cannot have morals without a spiritual guidance helping you out. As noted here. Idiot Bill Oreily tries to infer that Hitler and Stalin did the things they did because they were atheists which lead to their lack of morality.

Casting stones from glass houses.

I mean, people say stupid things ... Atheists, Christians, Moslems, communists, capitalists, blacks, whites, martians, earthlings. Last I checked, no one group had a monopoly on stupid.

IMHO, rather than highlighting idiots, why don't we just look for those we can admire and see why they did and said what they did and said. What was their belief system and how did it affect them? And, most importantly, what can we gain from it.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Well, actually, Rat has on more than one occasion implied that the belief in God is merely a mental disease.

Yeah, that sounds like something I'd say.

[firstdown]

The title says republicans but from what I saw from a quick glance the article had two people they interviewed.

[RedskinRat]

Republicans.....FFS!

Arizona Republicans Propose Bill Requiring Belief In God To Graduate High School

A group of Arizona politicians — all Republicans, of course — have proposed a law (House Bill 2467) requiring public high school students to recite the following oath in order to graduate:


I, _______, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; So help me God.

It’s bad enough the Republicans are demanding loyalty of the kind normally reserved for members of Congress and beyond. If this bill were to become a law, atheists would either not be allowed to graduate…or they would be forced to lie so they could graduate. Neither option is acceptable.

Amen, to that! J/K!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Republicans.....FFS!

Arizona Republicans Propose Bill Requiring Belief In God To Graduate High School

A group of Arizona politicians — all Republicans, of course — have proposed a law (House Bill 2467) requiring public high school students to recite the following oath in order to graduate:


I, _______, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; So help me God.

It’s bad enough the Republicans are demanding loyalty of the kind normally reserved for members of Congress and beyond. If this bill were to become a law, atheists would either not be allowed to graduate…or they would be forced to lie so they could graduate. Neither option is acceptable.

Amen, to that! J/K!

Funny the article makes it sound like its strongly supported by rep. but it has only two members pushing this wacko bill. I guess 2 is now a group.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The title says republicans but from what I saw from a quick glance the article had two people they interviewed.

Funny I made the post prior to this one and then saw this post of mine. Seems we have an on going thing of the left trying to make these things out as something they are not.

[mlmpetert]

Yeah, Disinformation seems to be more about Misinformation (zing!).


To call this a bill by Republicans requiring high schoolers to believe in God is crazy talk. Its a bill by 2 Republicans requiring students to swear or, very likely, affirm their support of the constitution, nothing more. Its currently written as an oath. I pretty sure there would be an affirmation option in place for people who object to oaths.

Now if you have a problem with current citizens swearing or affirming their support of the constitution, then thats different. But this has nothing to do with God, silly liberals. And if it was about God im sure it would piss him off, as i dont think you are supposed to swear on or to God, hence the use and role of affirmations.

[RedskinRat]

Maybe math isn't yours area of expertise, but I count 8 people as sponsors, including a Senator.

Representatives Thorpe, Borrelli, Seel, Shope, Smith: Dial, Livingston, Senator Crandell.

Here's the Bill.

I didn't use the word 'god' when I swore my oath of allegiance, but then this is California.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Funny I made the post prior to this one and then saw this post of mine. Seems we have an on going thing of the left trying to make these things out as something they are not.

I am against both parties. Neither represent me.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Yeah, Disinformation seems to be more about Misinformation (zing!).


To call this a bill by Republicans requiring high schoolers to believe in God is crazy talk. Its a bill by 2 Republicans requiring students to swear or, very likely, affirm their support of the constitution, nothing more. Its currently written as an oath. I pretty sure there would be an affirmation option in place for people who object to oaths.

Now if you have a problem with current citizens swearing or affirming their support of the constitution, then thats different. But this has nothing to do with God, silly liberals. And if it was about God im sure it would piss him off, as i dont think you are supposed to swear on or to God, hence the use and role of affirmations.

Key words are highlighted and underlined. This thread is about Republicans being dumbasses when it comes to their religion. This isn't say ALL or EVERYBODY, but these people ARE representing the party.

edit: No, I don't call them dumbasses because they are religious. I call them dumbasses because they want us all to pattern our lives and follow their guidelines based on their religion.

[NC_Skins]

...and here we have more GOP dumbasses trying to make abortion illegal (in some instances).

New Mexico lawmaker resurrects bill making abortion after rape a felony - Salon.com


Submit a bill claiming a fetus is "evidence" in a rape crime. Hence it would make it illegal to "destroy evidence" by getting an abortion.

The bill reads: "Tampering with evidence shall include procuring or facilitating an abortion, or compelling or coercing another to obtain an abortion, of a fetus that is the result of criminal sexual penetration or incest with the intent to destroy evidence of the crime."

It's ok guys, she "missed" this.


Carlsbad's Cathrynn Brown under fire for bill on abortion by rape victims - Carlsbad Current-Argus