Wft quarterback of the future

[Pervis_Griffith]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

You draft another young QB, keep Smith to mentor him, we need someone to move the ball, our O will be fine next year. We have contracts of key players coming up and the last you want to do is to throw unnecessary cash. Fitzmagic is hot and cold, no thanks. The others are cost prohibitive.

This --- draft a QB to be the man. Keep Smith here to start the first couple of games, and mentor the youngster. Kyle Allen can be the third guy in the room.

Rookie QB cap hit would make it possible to keep the DLine together, if we are inclined. Jonathon Allen has been phenomenal, but, if push came to shove, he'd be the guy I would let go. With Ioannidis, Settle and Daron Payne, your looking good on the inside. But hanging on to J Allen should be a goal.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Pervis_Griffith

This --- draft a QB to be the man. Keep Smith here to start the first couple of games, and mentor the youngster. Kyle Allen can be the third guy in the room.

Rookie QB cap hit would make it possible to keep the DLine together, if we are inclined. Jonathon Allen has been phenomenal, but, if push came to shove, he'd be the guy I would let go. With Ioannidis, Settle and Daron Payne, your looking good on the inside. But hanging on to J Allen should be a goal.

He's a captain, they would not get rid of him. I wish we could keep all of them, I hate the salary cap and free agency.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

You draft another young QB, keep Smith to mentor him, we need someone to move the ball, our O will be fine next year. We have contracts of key players coming up and the last you want to do is to throw unnecessary cash. Fitzmagic is hot and cold, no thanks. The others are cost prohibitive.

That is fine. See you in 2022. Maybe. If the guy pans out. Because Smith and Allen and DH are not winning us a super bowl next year. They are not bringing us close to one.
I have no problem with drafting a quarterback but we need a more productive stop gap to mentor him because we can win big with one while the youngster learns. The rest of this team is good enough to win big now. The Quarterback position is literally holding us back.
I think taking the money into account and taking your time is fine ... unless our draftee turns into DH again. I believe there is a way to get someone better than Smith for next year that gives us a chance to win without breaking the bank and mortgaging our future all while grooming someone for the future.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by punch it in

That is fine. See you in 2022. Maybe. If the guy pans out. Because Smith and Allen and DH are not winning us a super bowl next year. They are not bringing us close to one.
I have no problem with drafting a quarterback but we need a more productive stop gap to mentor him because we can win big with one while the youngster learns. The rest of this team is good enough to win big now. The Quarterback position is literally holding us back.
I think taking the money into account and taking your time is fine ... unless our draftee turns into DH again. I believe there is a way to get someone better than Smith for next year that gives us a chance to win without breaking the bank and mortgaging our future all while grooming someone for the future.

How did Joe Gibbs win? Were any of his QB's stars besides Theismann? Next year barring injury we are going to be stacked on both sides, we have some really good players on IR even though unproven, my gut tells me Charles, AGG, Love and maybe even Ruben Foster will pan out. We need someone to manage the ball not a superstar.

I'm intrigued with Steven Montez, maybe with some coaching and mentoring he could rise above Allen and Haskins. I hope he goes to camp next year.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

How did Joe Gibbs win? Were any of his QB's stars besides Theismann? Next year barring injury we are going to be stacked on both sides, we have some really good players on IR even though unproven, my gut tells me Charles, AGG, Love and maybe even Ruben Foster will pan out. We need someone to manage the ball not a superstar.



I'm intrigued with Steven Montez, maybe with some coaching and mentoring he could rise above Allen and Haskins. I hope he goes to camp next year.

Who said anything about a star quarterback? I said someone better than Smith. Someone who can throw it 10-15 yards consistently certainly does not constitute a star.

Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, even Schroeder - those guys when they played for us were all waaaaaaaay more capable than Alex is now. It is not even close.

Not to mention Gibbs also had a hof rb and o line and one of the best wr trios in history. A phenomenon tight end. A Kicker who never missed.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

How did Joe Gibbs win? Were any of his QB's stars besides Theismann? Next year barring injury we are going to be stacked on both sides, we have some really good players on IR even though unproven, my gut tells me Charles, AGG, Love and maybe even Ruben Foster will pan out. We need someone to manage the ball not a superstar.

I'm intrigued with Steven Montez, maybe with some coaching and mentoring he could rise above Allen and Haskins. I hope he goes to camp next year.

As much as I love Joe Gibbs for being the best coach we've ever had, I don't believe the argument that a team can win today in the style that Gibbs won in the 80's is relevant. First of all, Gibbs is a unicorn, in that there is no other coach in history that won 3 SB's with 3 different qb's.

Second of all, the rules of today are more favorable towards teams with elite qb's who put up big numbers.

For reference, let's look at the Super Bowl winners dating back to 2000:

Mahomes, Brady, Foles/Wentz, Brady, P. Manning, Brady, R. Wilson, Flacco, E. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, E. Manning, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Brady, Brady, Gannon, Brady, Dilfer.

Now, let's exclude the GOAT because if the model you're trying to build is duplicating the success of the greatest QB/HC the league has ever seen you're gonna have a bad time. What do we have left?

Mahomes x1 (elite)
Foles/Wentz x1 (obviously a one-off at this point)
P. Manning x2 (elite)
Russ Wilson x1 (another elite HOF-tracking qb, noticing a trend here?)
Flacco x1 (along with Eli, the modern day example of combining above-average with clutch performance and a great D to win a title)
Eli Manning x2 (the formula is above average statistical -aka not elite- + clutch + great d = Super Bowl contender/winner)
Rodgers x1 (elite)
Brees x1 (elite)
Roethlisberger x2 (borderline elite + great d)
Gannon x1 (above average + great d)
Dilfer x1 (game manager + HOF worthy D)

Let's break it down another way:

Elite - Mahomes, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger = 8 titles (14 if you count Brady, which you should absolutely should because Brady has been elite every year until this year). So that's 14/20 titles.

Game manager to above average statistical combined with a clutch performance here and there and a great defense - 6 titles (Eli Manning x2, Foles/Wentz, Flacco, Gannon, Dilfer)

In conclusion, yeah you can win a title in today's NFL when you combine a great defense with an above-average qb capable of clutch performances, but the odds are lower than finding a stud qb and surrounding him with a quality team (that is still gonna need some clutch performances on top of that). It's incredibly hard to win a title in today's NFL, just ask above-average elite qb's like Deshaun Watson, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Philip Rivers, Kirk Cousins, Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, Dak Prescott - all guys who were considered above average/had statistical success at some stage in their careers but have never hoisted a Lombardi).

But the odds are higher if you build a solid team in all 3 aspects and also have a great qb capable of pulling off clutch performances on the NFL's biggest stage. Me personally, our defense (while good) has not achieved elite status -yet- and even if it did I'm not sold that Alex Smith is the guy that you can combine with a great defense to win a title. Alex Smith's biggest strength is not making mistakes/turnovers. He's not a playmaker. He's not gonna razzle/dazzle you on occasion. If the defense has a good day and the running game is functioning, that's good enough to win more often than not. But is he going to bail you out when those other units are having bad days? No. Can he serve as a capable bridge qb until the next long term quy is ready to play? Yes. But that's his ceiling as far as I'm concerned.

[rocnrik]

IF Stafford had been our starting QB this year .. I believe we would have at least 3-4 more wins and be a threat in the playoffs ... I’m I crazy ..😀

[CRedskinsRule]

I dont know the right answer but I actually trust Rivera and this new WFT structure/staff to do due diligence and develop the right plan.



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[rocnrik]

Matthew stafford .. would be my answer for next 3-4 years with the D we have in place now .. that is our best chance to win it all ... we have a small window with this D ... a rookie will take a while to get the hang .. I’m looking at all the vets who possibly could be had ... I know it would be pricey however it could be done...

[Chico23231]

Kyle Allen should play and start over Alex Smith next season IF HEALTHY

Start there.

Kyle will be cheaper and has played just as well.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Kyle Allen should play and start over Alex Smith next season IF HEALTHY

Start there.

Kyle will be cheaper and has played just as well.

I think we'd be in the same spot right now if Allen had been playing the last 4 weeks. I'd be fine with him as the short term guy and who knows maybe he can turn that into something more.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

I think we'd be in the same spot right now if Allen had been playing the last 4 weeks. I'd be fine with him as the short term guy and who knows maybe he can turn that into something more.

Agree...the emergence of Gibson is a bigger factor of the offense’s rise than Alex coming in. Gibson absence on the field this past week really hurt.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Agree...the emergence of Gibson is a bigger factor of the offense’s rise than Alex coming in. Gibson absence on the field this past week really hurt.

Again, 610 yards passing over 5 games and 1-3 as the starter. How that is just as good as Smith - I don't get it.

It's not a coincidence that this ENTIRE team has played better since Smith took over. He can't move around much, but he absolutely has made this whole team better. Call it the emergence of Gibson, the defense getting better, the O-line improving...whatever you want to call it - the one change that was made before this team went 4-1 over it's last 5 games, was naming Smith the starter.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

Again, 610 yards passing over 5 games and 1-3 as the starter. How that is just as good as Smith - I don't get it.

It's not a coincidence that this ENTIRE team has played better since Smith took over. He can't move around much, but he absolutely has made this whole team better. Call it the emergence of Gibson, the defense getting better, the O-line improving...whatever you want to call it - the one change that was made before this team went 4-1 over it's last 5 games, was naming Smith the starter.

Yeah I just disagree. Smith hasn’t been that great, pretty avg. go back and look look at each game Alex played...include the rams and giants game as well. Cincy and Dallas game he really wasn’t asked to do much. I absolutely believe Alex did lift the team and his demeanor helped in a lot of pressure situations. But not buying Kyle didn’t or couldn’t play as well...it will depend on Health tho. I expect Alex if he is named starter next year to play as a bottom 1/3 QB in the league, that’s not gonna get it done IMO.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Kyle Allen should play and start over Alex Smith next season IF HEALTHY

Start there.

Kyle will be cheaper and has played just as well.

Allen has not played just as well as Smith. 610 yards passing in 5 games and 1-3 as a starter? He is coming off a major injury as well...I'm not sure that would be my first choice if the plan is to move on from Smith.

If you've made the decision to move on from Smith and don't get your day 1 QB in the draft, then you probably do bite the bullet and lure a FA in here. Who that would be, I don't know.

I see Stafford's name thrown around a lot, but he is under contract for the next two years. I don't see that as an option.

Maybe you can bring in a guy like Dalton, Winston, Trubisky...

Good discussion, but I like the discussions about this year better. I'm enjoying the fact that this team is in 1st place right now with a chance to host a playoff game.