What's your take on our coaching?

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Truth you speak but I don't remember Gruden having any legit talent to work w/ at QB either...maybe I'm wrong?

And I would also say Cutler is better w/o Mike.

As I recall Gruden was not a good QB evaluator while in Tampa Bay, he had Griese, Simms, tried to get Plummer, I believe Jeff Garcia was there too and they all sucked. I think he had 7 QB during pre-season that year.

[saden1]

Thus far coaching has been trash but so has the qb play, the oline, the d-line when it matters, the secondary. If there is no improvements next year which results in a playoff appearance I would fire Mike and son.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

Thus far coaching has been trash but so has the qb play, the oline, the d-line when it matters, the secondary. If there is no improvements next year which results in a playoff appearance I would fire Mike and son.

Well put. I wouldn't say playoffs or "off with their heads", but there needs to be a significant (4+ Win) improvement next year.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by saden1

Thus far coaching has been trash but so has the qb play, the oline, the d-line when it matters, the secondary. If there is no improvements next year which results in a playoff appearance I would fire Mike and son.

I would expect a 9-7 or 8-8 from us next year providing we get a good rookie QB. We have to revamp everything Saden, and I mean everything, even finish sorting out the WR corp for the future. Secondary and the LB corps are a mess. We need 3-4 OLs for at least depth. Just too many gaps yet to fill to make this a really solid squad.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Well put. I wouldn't say playoffs or "off with their heads", but there needs to be a significant (4+ Win) improvement next year.

When Shanahan was hired I said he was a mediocre coach except for one or two exceptional regular seasons the last ten years. I remember Gibbs delivered his second year with what he had, which wasn't much. I don't think we should lower our expectations in the third year because if he can't succeed by then chances are he won't succeed in the 4th year.


Show me the money!

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by saden1

When Shanahan was hired I said he was a mediocre coach except for one or two exceptional regular seasons the last ten years. I remember Gibbs delivered his second year with what he had, which wasn't much. I don't think we should lower our expectations in the third year because if he can't succeed by then chances are he won't succeed in the 4th year.


Show me the money!

We can argue over the accuracy of this, Gibbs did inherit a franchise LT & a solid RT & decent LG, all career Skins at the time. Then signed a C & a RG. He traded for a RB & a WR. Of course, the Brunell trade too. On D, they signed a bunch of starters in 04 - Daniels, Griffin, Washington, Springs, Wynn.

Regardless of how good those guys were, let's agree on one thing: a lot of $ was spent in Gibbs' tenure to bring in free agents & trades. They signed guys like Brunell & Moss to pretty big deals. The new guys on D got nice deals too.

My point is, Gibbs built a team for the relative short-term & spent a lot of $, draft picks & cap space that impacted the team beyond his time. Of course Vinny was a part of it. While I'm an avid Gibbs fan & think he did a lot considering the dysfunctional culture/mgmt. he worked with, Allen & Shanny have made much more prudent decisions. If Gibbs were to have taken that approach when he came back, we might not've won much in 05 & 07, but the team might've been younger & cheaper when he left.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

We can argue over the accuracy of this, Gibbs did inherit a franchise LT & a solid RT & decent LG, all career Skins at the time. Then signed a C & a RG. He traded for a RB & a WR. Of course, the Brunell trade too. On D, they signed a bunch of starters in 04 - Daniels, Griffin, Washington, Springs, Wynn.

Regardless of how good those guys were, let's agree on one thing: a lot of $ was spent in Gibbs' tenure to bring in free agents & trades. They signed guys like Brunell & Moss to pretty big deals. The new guys on D got nice deals too.

My point is, Gibbs built a team for the relative short-term & spent a lot of $, draft picks & cap space that impacted the team beyond his time. Of course Vinny was a part of it. While I'm an avid Gibbs fan & think he did a lot considering the dysfunctional culture/mgmt. he worked with, Allen & Shanny have made much more prudent decisions. If Gibbs were to have taken that approach when he came back, we might not've won much in 05 & 07, but the team might've been younger & cheaper when he left.

It's funny. I actually thought saden was talking about Gibbs' second year of his first stint, when he won the Super Bowl

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's funny. I actually thought saden was talking about Gibbs' second year of his first stint, when he won the Super Bowl

If so, my bad Saden! At the same time, I see why I assumed he was talking about Gibbs II - because it's the salary cap era. I don't see where 1982-3 really can be compared to what Shanahan is faced with now. But Gibbs in 05 - Shanhan 11, yes that's worth looking at. Same ownership, same lingering cap & personel issues. I would argue that Shanny (& Allen) has taken a much more long-term approach & that is part of the reason we're going through this hell now. Whereas Gibbs, though not all his fault, continued to mortgage the future to win now.

[saden1]

I'm taking about Gibbs' second stint. If Shanahan is building for the future that's great but just don't expect me to support him without expectations. I think 3 years is plenty and if he addresses the qb position next year I am willing to give him one more year. His decision to keep rex and beck has really set us back a year.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by saden1

I'm taking about Gibbs' second stint. If Shanahan is building for the future that's great but just don't expect me to support him without expectations. I think 3 years is plenty and if he addresses the qb position next year I am willing to give him one more year. His decision to keep rex and beck has really set us back a year.

Throw the McNabb trade, that's a two year setback methinks.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Throw the McNabb trade, that's a two year setback methinks.

Great point!

[CrustyRedskin]

Will one of you experts just answer one question for me? How can it happen and is it a good thing to regress durring the rebuilding process?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Throw the McNabb trade, that's a two year setback methinks.

A setback due to the loss of picks, yes. Was McNabb ever thought of as "the future?" I hope not, he was a stop gap, but it turns out not even that worked out. We would still be going through much of the same unless we drafted a good QB. That's the main thing, we don't have even a developmental prospect at this point. I understand why they didn't draft one, certainly expect 2 to be picked in April.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

A setback due to the loss of picks, yes. Was McNabb ever thought of as "the future?" I hope not, he was a stop gap, but it turns out not even that worked out. We would still be going through much of the same unless we drafted a good QB. That's the main thing, we don't have even a developmental prospect at this point. I understand why they didn't draft one, certainly expect 2 to be picked in April.

Yeah I think we could have used that 2nd rounder on some player that would have developed last year and would be ready to contribute this year or trade down for more picks. My personal choice would have been to trade down the 2nd round a bit and get Terrence Cody, picking him up to be our NT of the future. And maybe we would not have had the need to pick up Cofield this year.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by CrustyRedskin

Will one of you experts just answer one question for me? How can it happen and is it a good thing to regress durring the rebuilding process?

..........it's technical..