Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

That's why it's called a hypothetical.

Why are you assuming Brunell will suck?

cuz of his performance in the regular season last year? when he was 34? think thats a reasonable basis to assume dont you? sure, he may have improved in the regular season, but its sucks that we didn't get to see if Ramsey did too.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by illdefined

cuz of his performance in the regular season last year? when he was 34? think thats a reasonable basis to assume dont you? sure, he may have improved in the regular season, but its sucks that we didn't get to see if Ramsey did too.

Do you think Ramsey improved from the end of last season to the start of this season?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

cuz of his performance in the regular season last year? when he was 34? think thats a reasonable basis to assume dont you? sure, he may have improved in the regular season, but its sucks that we didn't get to see if Ramsey did too.

Last year is what it is.

But, look at the whole picture. Call me crazy, but I've said before that it's hard to believe that a quality QB like Brunell all of a sudden just lost it. Sure those things do happen, I'm not saying it's not possible, but based on his past success over the course of his career along with his improved play this preseason, I think it's worth giving him a 2nd shot. After seeing him this preseason it appears that last year might have been more of a fluke than an indication his career was over.

People seem to be hanging on the potential of Ramsey, he might do this, and he might be able to do that. But what about the potential of Brunell? Why is this being completely dismissed? Because of one bad stretch last year?

To clarify I'm not talking about long-term potential with Brunell. Obviously he's nearing the end of his career, I'm talking about short-term potential. Who's to say he can't go back in and be a productive and winning QB for this team? Plenty of QBs have their most productive years in their 30s nowadays. Plenty of players have an off year or even a bad year, only to turn around and resurrect their careers.

People have seemingly closed the book on Brunell, and I think that might be a bit premature. Remember when Gibbs said the final chapters on Brunell haven't been written yet? We all thought he was crazy. Then after a solid preseason many of us raised our eyebrows and said hmmm, maybe he wasn't kidding.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

That's why it's called a hypothetical.

Why are you assuming Brunell will suck?

I was just saying that in YOUR post you stated ramsey would suck which also implied that brunell for reason wont. There's no gaurantees either one will be any good, so talking about how ramsey was going to lead us to the brink of elimination without mention brunell (who's already done it to us) is shortsighted.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

For the people that say Ramsey wasn't given the same chance that Brunell was given last year, how many games should Ramsey have been given?

Should we have waited until we were on the brink of being eliminated from the playoff race? Should we have waited until the bye week to make a switch?

Just curious, if Ramsey was struggling and the team was losing, how long would you wait to make a change?

no waiting for the brink of elimination we tried already with Brunell. i'd say four whole games. were we losing in those first 19 minutes?

[VTSkins897]

I'd rather have seen Ramsey get the chance to prove himself for more than a quarter but we have no choice but to cheer for Brunell. We need to at least give the guys in there the home-field advantage (I know that this is a road game.) Clearly I trust the player's/Gibbs' judgments over my own. I don't think we should argue about it anymore until we see what happens Monday night after Brunell gets the week to prepare.

Looking at the Eagles-Falcons game we see what happens when two good defenses collide. Compare a 14-10 final from two of the top teams in the NFC to a 9-7 final from... Well you rank 'em where you see fit.

Someone earlier said that fans are fickle. I agree completely and will do you one better. The game Sunday showed me that 'idiots' is probably a better fit. A WR screen followed by a quick out for a total of 4 yards has them all groaning about Gibbs' playcalling until the 3rd passing play gets them the first down. Now are you happy? Idiots. (The people on Warpath are the only fans that know anything... heh).

Anyways I think we just wait it out and see where the old-timer can take us.

Go Skins!

[scowan]

Gibbs made the comparisons between Rypien and Ramsey, and for those of you old enough to remember Rypien, he did have fumble problems and interception problems early in his career and over came them. The difference this time around is that you have Campbell sitting on the bench waiting to play. I don't think Ramsey would be as upset as we all know he is if we were just talking about Brunell and Ramsey, but you have Campbell there who was selected by Gibbs and not just ramdomly selected either, but purposely gone after. It tells me that Gibbs was thinking in April that Mark was probably done and that he was going to have to play Ramsey, but he did not like it and needed to have a backup for down the road in Campbell. Then Mark "comes back to life" in preseason and Ramsey continues to play inconsistent and now we are where we are. Let's all face it, as soon as Joe feels Campbell is ready, Ramsey is 3rd string.

[ladyfan06]

Oh please...get over it. Gibbs is the coach and he says Brunnell is going to start. That is that! I think he got the coaching job for good reason, let him coach...if he told me today that Brunnell was his starter and come Monday night (primetime), Doug Williams ran on the field with a #17 jersey and a smile and that wins us the game, so be it!

[sportscurmudgeon]

SkinstoWin:

You said:

"He has been thrown to the wolves, played hurt, what more can you ask of a guy?" [He = Patrick Ramsey]

Here's what more I could have asked from him. Of the games in which you were a starting QB, the team could have won 60% of the time. Bottom line: That didn't happen.


ladyfan06/Matty:

You have both broken the code. What matters is winning football games and the things that the coaches are doing now are aimed at that goal. That happens to be true of what they did last year and what the previous coaches did too. They are not out there to lose games and they are not out there to advance some other personal agenda at the expense of winning games. On that point, fans and the coaches ought to agree 100% of the time.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

On that point, fans and the coaches ought to agree 100% of the time.

that's assuming the coaches are always right.

Benching gates really worked out well in SD, I'm sure there was disagreement over that, and that cost them a competitive advantage and possibly a win.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

ladyfan06/Matty:

You have both broken the code. What matters is winning football games and the things that the coaches are doing now are aimed at that goal. That happens to be true of what they did last year and what the previous coaches did too. They are not out there to lose games and they are not out there to advance some other personal agenda at the expense of winning games. On that point, fans and the coaches ought to agree 100% of the time.

Yeah that's pretty much been my point.

Gibbs is trying to win football games, not a popularity contest. If feelings get hurt along the way so be it.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

SkinstoWin:
What matters is winning football games and the things that the coaches are doing now are aimed at that goal. That happens to be true of what they did last year and what the previous coaches did too. They are not out there to lose games and they are not out there to advance some other personal agenda at the expense of winning games.

i dunno SC, keeping Brunell so long while he was clearly stinking it up last season you have to attribute to personal loyalty on some level.

[BrudLee]

My real problem, I suppose, is that the ability of a quarterback shouldn't take nine games to measure (like last year), but shouldn't take 19 minutes either (like this year). In our vocal complaining last year that Gibbs took too long to make the change, we never anticipated that he'd be this quick with the hook this year.

He's also set an ugly precedent. If Brunell has an inefficient game on Monday with a few ill-advised turnovers, is it even possible to re-insert Ramsey after the way he was pulled? Would the insertion of Campbell be "giving up" on the season? Would keeping Brunell in after a poor performance hurt the chemistry of the team given the recent move?

If Mark Brunell has a game like Sunday's - which projects to about 100 yards passing on 20 attempts with the team getting 4 FGs - what's the mood going to be like on the offense?

More importantly, what does Peter King think?!?!?

[LadyT]

Originally Posted by BrudLee

My real problem, I suppose, is that the ability of a quarterback shouldn't take nine games to measure (like last year), but shouldn't take 19 minutes either (like this year). In our vocal complaining last year that Gibbs took too long to make the change, we never anticipated that he'd be this quick with the hook this year.

He's also set an ugly precedent. If Brunell has an inefficient game on Monday with a few ill-advised turnovers, is it even possible to re-insert Ramsey after the way he was pulled? Would the insertion of Campbell be "giving up" on the season? Would keeping Brunell in after a poor performance hurt the chemistry of the team given the recent move?

If Mark Brunell has a game like Sunday's - which projects to about 100 yards passing on 20 attempts with the team getting 4 FGs - what's the mood going to be like on the offense?

More importantly, what does Peter King think?!?!?

If Brunell stinks on Monday, or even if he just makes a few TOs, he won't get yanked. That's because he's always worked with a much longer leash from Joe than Ramsey was allowed. Don't ask me to explain why, because I can't fathom anything that Joe is doing lately. So, better get used to Brunell (TOs, weak arm and all), because he'll be in there unless he gets hurt. He was allowed a leash of 9 games last year before even Joe had to admit that things were so bad that a change was needed. Why should I believe it will be any different this year?

[TheMalcolmConnection]

If anything is going to give me hope, it's the fact that Brunell did in fact, go deep on many pass routes in the preseason and was deadly accurate on most of them.

Second stringers or not, you can't take away accuracy.