The 2nd Amendment Thread

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by MTK

Kids showing up to the wrong door step or driveway getting shot... when is enough enough?

What does this have to do with the 2nd amendment? Unless you're now arguing that all guns should be outlawed.

The guy is a murderer and should be prosecuted as such.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

What does this have to do with the 2nd amendment? Unless you're now arguing that all guns should be outlawed.

The guy is a murderer and should be prosecuted as such.

If it has to be spelled out at this point what a problem guns are I don't know what else to say. And no I'm not saying all guns should be outlawed. No reasonable person is saying that. But how about making it a little more difficult for people to get a gun in the first place?

[Chico23231]

https://www.wtvr.com/news/local-news...-april-18-2023

School leader defends decision not to expel Richmond student who allegedly threatened to shoot teacher

Peak into why Richmond city schools are consistently ranked at the bottom of the state. They allow students to threaten to shoot teachers.

“ Multiple teachers at the school said they were scared for their lives because they did not know if the student had received any mental health treatment, or what type of interventions the school would have in place to keep students and staff safe.”

These are the same folks who claim a single armed security at a school “makes it seem like a prison” while Richmond city as well as Democratic run county outside the city just approved 10 million in tax money to install metal detectors in high schools. What type of retard thinks an armed security guard looks worse than metals detectors to come into school each day?

These people don’t care about protecting kids or teachers, they are fucking joke

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by MTK

If it has to be spelled out at this point what a problem guns are I don't know what else to say. And no I'm not saying all guns should be outlawed. No reasonable person is saying that. But how about making it a little more difficult for people to get a gun in the first place?

This was a 65 year old man that probably has had that gun for a long time. Making guns a little more difficult to get was not going to stop this from happening. The 2nd amendment is not relevant to this shooting unless you don't think people should be able to own guns at all.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

If it has to be spelled out at this point what a problem guns are I don't know what else to say. And no I'm not saying all guns should be outlawed. No reasonable person is saying that. But how about making it a little more difficult for people to get a gun in the first place?

Serious question, if we know illegal guns are used in 70-85% in gun violence, why don’t you support locking up these folks in illegal possession of a firearm?

No more discussion on gun control unless we enforce the laws on the books. No cashless bails for guns or violent crime.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

This was a 65 year old man that probably has had that gun for a long time. Making guns a little more difficult to get was not going to stop this from happening. The 2nd amendment is not relevant to this shooting unless you don't think people should be able to own guns at all.

this thread has turned into more of an all encompassing gun discussion vs pure 2nd amendment so let's not get bogged down in semantics

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Serious question, if we know illegal guns are used in 70-85% in gun violence, why don’t you support locking up these folks in illegal possession of a firearm?

No more discussion on gun control unless we enforce the laws on the books. No cashless bails for guns or violent crime.

Who said I don't? I'm all for enforcement of existing laws in addition to strengthening them. They need to go hand in hand though and the gun nuts don't want either.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

Who said I don't? I'm all for enforcement of existing laws in addition to strengthening them. They need to go hand in hand though and the gun nuts don't want either.

Anybody possession of illegal firearms….no cashless bail and federally mandated 2 year prison sentence. Anybody caught committing a crime with a gun, minimum 10 year prison sentence on top of additional charges

If guns are the problem, show me you care

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by MTK

this thread has turned into more of an all encompassing gun discussion vs pure 2nd amendment so let's not get bogged down in semantics

I guess I'm just missing the point of your post then. Unless, it's just that guns are bad. And I'd submit guns are not bad, people that shoot people are bad. Guns are the only instrument of violence where the object gets the blame and the people shooting them are a distant 2nd. We injure/kill each other in lots of different ways, we never have these discussions for knives, bats, hands, cars, etc., etc.

Nothing was stopping this shooting besides guns being outlawed or this guy not being a piece of shit.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

I guess I'm just missing the point of your post then. Unless, it's just that guns are bad. And I'd submit guns are not bad, people that shoot people are bad. Guns are the only instrument of violence where the object gets the blame and the people shooting them are a distant 2nd. We injure/kill each other in lots of different ways, we never have these discussions for knives, bats, hands, cars, etc., etc.

Nothing was stopping this shooting besides guns being outlawed or this guy not being a piece of shit.

Simple point is guns are part of the problem. I'll emphasize part of the problem, not the only problem. The US is an outlier when compared to the rest of the world. We have the most guns, we have the most gun violence. It's been shown time and time again that countries with tighter gun control have less gun violence. Gun violence and specifically mass shootings are a uniquely American problem. But what I keep hearing from people like yourself is oh well, nothing would have stopped this latest incident so why bother trying anything.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

What does this have to do with the 2nd amendment? Unless you're now arguing that all guns should be outlawed.

The guy is a murderer and should be prosecuted as such.

IMO, it's all intertwined. I don't advocate to take guns away but I don't understand the fight back against licensing gun owners like we do with cars. There are age limits, and restrictions and rules and laws to follow all to do with safety. If I can't pass the eye test I can't get my license or renew it till I see a Dr. notice they won't take my car away. But I will need insurance and such. IMO I just think this is common sense but we all know the NRA will scream it is "infringing on my 2nd Amendment Rights". Sorry but a gun owner needs to explain it to me. It's not the gun it's the gun operator but why shouldn't the gun operator be held to a high standard as much as a operator of a vehicle?

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by MTK

Simple point is guns are part of the problem. I'll emphasize part of the problem, not the only problem. The US is an outlier when compared to the rest of the world. We have the most guns, we have the most gun violence. It's been shown time and time again that countries with tighter gun control have less gun violence. Gun violence and specifically mass shootings are a uniquely American problem. But what I keep hearing from people like yourself is oh well, nothing would have stopped this latest incident so why bother trying anything.

I just think this example is not the right one to use to make the point your trying to make. These type shootings cannot be legislated out of happening, unless the legislation is to ban all guns. This guy is a scumbag that needs to spend the rest of his life in prison, so he cannot shoot anyone else ever again.

In regards to me personally, I have previously stated I'm for raising the age to own guns to 21, background checks, spending on mental healthcare, etc. My dog in the fight isn't about requirements to own a gun, I just care about not banning certain type guns.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by Giantone

IMO, it's all intertwined. I don't advocate to take guns away but I don't understand the fight back against licensing gun owners like we do with cars. There are age limits, and restrictions and rules and laws to follow all to do with safety. If I can't pass the eye test I can't get my license or renew it till I see a Dr. notice they won't take my car away. But I will need insurance and such. IMO I just think this is common sense but we all know the NRA will scream it is "infringing on my 2nd Amendment Rights". Sorry but a gun owner needs to explain it to me. It's not the gun it's the gun operator but why shouldn't the gun operator be held to a high standard as much as a operator of a vehicle?

Someone else will have to answer those for you, because I don't disagree on them.

I just believe all lawfully abiding citizens have the right to own guns of their choosing.

[Chico23231]

We definitely have a gun crime problem, laws on the books but people refuse to actually enforce the laws and lock up criminals which works.

Until we start to lock up the criminals and enforce gun laws, then I’m a solid no on any new gun laws.

Why create more laws if you fail to enforce them? At this point you are purposely attacking law abiding citizens with guns aka the overwhelming majority

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sdskinsfan2001

I just think this example is not the right one to use to make the point your trying to make. These type shootings cannot be legislated out of happening, unless the legislation is to ban all guns. This guy is a scumbag that needs to spend the rest of his life in prison, so he cannot shoot anyone else ever again.

In regards to me personally, I have previously stated I'm for raising the age to own guns to 21, background checks, spending on mental healthcare, etc. My dog in the fight isn't about requirements to own a gun, I just care about not banning certain type guns.

I wasn't trying to say these shootings involving kids showing up at the wrong place could have been prevented with gun control. I was just bringing them up in the grand scheme of the gun control debate in general. But who knows, maybe they could have been prevented if we had jumped on gun control reform years ago and aggressively funded mental health related support programs. We'll never know 100%. To me it's just sad that in the US we have a clear health and safety issue and we've prioritized guns and the 2nd amendment over all else.