V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"

[BigHairedAristocrat]

When did brohm die?

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

When did brohm die?

Metaphor and hyperbole for a QB who's utter suck. He'll be joining Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf soon. He's a Bill...for now.

[ethat001]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

If anything, blame Zorn for his advice in "needing" a big receiver and the bullshit wisdom of "we already have this dude(Moss), so we don't need that dude(Royal, Jackson)".

I'm not sure that's fair -- I don't think it was just Zorn that wanted a big receiver. It was almost everyone on this board, the media, and pretty much everyone that was complaining we didn't have a tall target for the endzone. Sure, in hindsight Desean Jackson is a beast -- but no need to trash Zorn for missing on him.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

And rate of success for those 2nd round picks are different from others how? Besides, I consider Casserly to be the better fit of a GM who is "master of strategy, but is atotally lame talent evaluator".

If anything, blame Zorn for his advice in "needing" a big receiver and the bullshit wisdom of "we already have this dude(Moss), so we don't need that dude(Royal, Jackson)".

And the Packers also had three second rounders. One is likely to pan out for them(Jordy Nelson), one died(Brohm), and one is still unknown due to injury(Patrick Lee).

sigh ... I never said anything about the success rate of second round picks. And I never said that 2nd round picks are all locks. All I said was that the one time we got the strategy right, i.e. stocking up on as many picks as you can between the second and 4th rounds, Vinny still found a way to whiff on 2, possibly all three of the picks in the second round.

Gee whiz, man. Forget it. Forget I said it...

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by ethat001

I'm not sure that's fair -- I don't think it was just Zorn that wanted a big receiver. It was almost everyone on this board, the media, and pretty much everyone that was complaining we didn't have a tall target for the endzone. Sure, in hindsight Desean Jackson is a beast -- but no need to trash Zorn for missing on him.

Agreed. There are so many good wideouts that have done really well that are around the six-feet range.

Are they fast, can they get separation and run precise routes should be the first questions about any wideout. Not, "how tall are they?"

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by ethat001

I'm not sure that's fair -- I don't think it was just Zorn that wanted a big receiver. It was almost everyone on this board, the media, and pretty much everyone that was complaining we didn't have a tall target for the endzone. Sure, in hindsight Desean Jackson is a beast -- but no need to trash Zorn for missing on him.

But does ANY FO give that much weight to what fans and the media are telling them to do? Now, I'll skewer Vinny all day for totally neglecting linemen, but if the scheme change to the WCO had not happened, I doubt there would be such urgency to grab a big and tall WR. Zorn's WCO is Holmgren's inspired, which in turn is about as close to a "pure" WCO there is. Lots of short passes in tight windows.

Not that Vinny is totally absolved from blame. He and Danny boy's approach to FA and WRs in FA were absolutely detrimental to the team. Putting all their eggs in ARE's basket obviously also affected the outcome of 2008's draft, as it sure appeared to give them incentive to pass over "small" guys because they were already "set" with small guys.

So, in short, I guess what I'm trying to say is that Cerrato did screw the pooch in the draft, but it was more because of the other dumb crap he did. Hiring Zorn modified his incentives and priorities in the draft so that "big and tall" possession guys were "needed". Being over-aggressive in FA caused them to be "tied up" roster-wise with guys like ARE, who he also overrated. Even so, the outcome of grabbing three second rounders and having a couple flame is not Vinny-exclusive.

[aceinthehouse]

All I know is how does a 2-time pro bowler who the redskins want to dump because of 3-4 scheme/workout offseason program differences only garner a 3rd as the highest and more likely a 4th or 5th...

But a 2-time Pro WR who is serving an NFL suspension for the 1st 4 games and 1 DUI away from being suspended a full NFL season be worth a whole lot MORE than our guy...

fact is..he's not!
If the chargers want two 2nd round picks,then let them keep him or someone else have him...

All in all....I would not pay much more for V-Jack than what Hayneworth's value on the market currently is...

The risk is too high and he's going to want Big money...
and we only get him for 3/4 of this season,assuming he's ready and knows the offense.

No way would I trade anything more for V-Jack,than what Albert's value is...
And I'm betting that Bruce feels the same way!

having said that,he would be a huge upgrade and give us a big target for McNabb!

[Shadowbyte]

If we don't make this deal I will be beyond infuriated. First we failed to get Boldin, then T.O, and lastly TJ. Say what you want about Cerrato. Atleast he could compelete a deal if he really wanted a player.

[NYCskinfan82]

I've fliped floped back & forth on this one but now I see it this way unless SD take a 6th rounder for him from us then wait till 2011 and sign him for nothing.

[aceinthehouse]

I'm 50/50 on this issue as well...

Part of me is like.."Well, I sure don't want to drop 1st or 2nd round picks for a guy that could be as bad a character (dui/suspensions) as the guy we are having issues with currently in Fat Al and would try if only it cost us 3rd,4th or lower picks to get him"

And the other part of me is like...are we going to have a chance for another WR with the skill sets as V-Jack...be it FA next season or even the draft? We've passed on TO,we failed to get guys like Boldin,Marshall and S.Holmes....Does the team have an urgency here or fine with what they have?

We obviously saw a weakness against the Cowboys granted they have a good D as well,but when all your targets are Moss or Cooley and maybe Davis....that's scares me a little,specially considering injuries these days...

A 6'5" WR with athletic ability and good on the fade routes that Armstrong failed twice on,could really help this team out.

Not only give opposing Defenses something else to worry about,but help Mcnabb out as well in the comfort level.

If we can get this guy without dropping 1st or 2nd round picks....even if it costs us multiple lower round picks including 3rds....you have to try to get this guy...imo

But I would also make sure they have a plan in place to give him a longterm extension!
We don't need another Jason Taylor scenario and watch V-Jack leave after 3/4's of a season only to go back to the chargers...lol

Know what I mean?
And we need to lock Mcnabb up as well!

The Giants won the Sb running a fade to Plexiglass,just like V-Jack could do for us...
We don't have this guys skill set of attributes on the team.

and playing teams on our schedule of the likes as G.B...Minny and the Colts...we need some more help!

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Shadowbyte

If we don't make this deal I will be beyond infuriated. First we failed to get Boldin, then T.O, and lastly TJ. Say what you want about Cerrato. Atleast he could compelete a deal if he really wanted a player.

What are you...complimenting....Cerrato....backstabbing Vinny? What about Ochocinco, Jay Cutler, Mark Sancehz. Not that all of those deals wouldn't have been great for us, but these were guys that Vinny was offering in some cases 2 first round picks. Now lets look at the guys you've listed.

Boldin - Yeah it sucks that we missed out on him, but part of the reason we couldn't afford him was because Vinny drafted Jarmon. At that point you have to give up your second round pick to beat the Ravens offer, which in our case was used to get McNabb. Would you rather have Boldin or McNabb?

T.O. - McNabb and T.O, great that they buried the hatchet but they're not exactly friends (watch them interact on the T.O show). This would have been a ticking time bomb.

TJ - Wanted him, but the Ravens are a stable team that is projected to compete for the Super Bowl this year.

And saying that our front office can't make a deal is quite ballsy if you ask me. This is the same front office that traded for a pro bowl tackle, and snatched away a franchise QB from a division rival for chump change. They also got a solid former first round pick for a 5th rounder in Carriker and drafted a future pro bowler at LT.

And to think they did all this in one offseason. We already have two pro bowl pass catchers on the roster, do we really need a third one to win? It's week 1 of the season, and we just came out of our first week in a new offense while facing a tough Dallas defense. Once McNabb get's up to speed on the offense suddenly it will look like we're deep at receiver. At this point Vincent Jackson is a 'nice to have' not a necessity.

Now lets go eat a God damn snack.

[Shadowbyte]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

And to think they did all this in one offseason. We already have two pro bowl pass catchers on the roster, do we really need a third one to win? It's week 1 of the season, and we just came out of our first week in a new offense while facing a tough Dallas defense. Once McNabb get's up to speed on the offense suddenly it will look like we're deep at receiver. At this point Vincent Jackson is a 'nice to have' not a necessity.

Now lets go eat a God damn snack.

I'm not saying everything Vinny tried I agreed with, however I did respect the level of agressiveness in which he pursued his prosects. I'm just frustrated that we've passed up on so many WR's over the years. The NFL is now a passing league, so we need to surround our franchise QB with as many weapons as possible. Especially someone who can make the tough catches in the endzone.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Shadowbyte

I'm not saying everything Vinny tried I agreed with, however I did respect the level of agressiveness in which he pursued his prosects. I'm just frustrated that we've passed up on so many WR's over the years. The NFL is now a passing league, so we need to surround our franchise QB with as many weapons as possible. Especially someone who can make the tough catches in the endzone.

In all honesty Cooley and Davis should be able to make catches in the red zone. Like I said before it's only week 1 but we're going up against a defense that just gave up 433 passing yards (yeah I know only week 1 but blah blah blah I agree I'm a hypocrite). I think with time we'll find out that our receiving corps is much better then the general sentiment going around this past week and most of that will come from McNabb's improved handle on the offense.

And hey, worse comes to worse we find another receiver this offseason. We don't need to do everything in one offseason.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

What are you...complimenting....Cerrato....backstabbing Vinny? What about Ochocinco, Jay Cutler, Mark Sancehz. Not that all of those deals wouldn't have been great for us, but these were guys that Vinny was offering in some cases 2 first round picks. Now lets look at the guys you've listed.

Boldin - Yeah it sucks that we missed out on him, but part of the reason we couldn't afford him was because Vinny drafted Jarmon. At that point you have to give up your second round pick to beat the Ravens offer, which in our case was used to get McNabb. Would you rather have Boldin or McNabb?

T.O. - McNabb and T.O, great that they buried the hatchet but they're not exactly friends (watch them interact on the T.O show). This would have been a ticking time bomb.

TJ - Wanted him, but the Ravens are a stable team that is projected to compete for the Super Bowl this year.

And saying that our front office can't make a deal is quite ballsy if you ask me. This is the same front office that traded for a pro bowl tackle, and snatched away a franchise QB from a division rival for chump change. They also got a solid former first round pick for a 5th rounder in Carriker and drafted a future pro bowler at LT.

And to think they did all this in one offseason. We already have two pro bowl pass catchers on the roster, do we really need a third one to win? It's week 1 of the season, and we just came out of our first week in a new offense while facing a tough Dallas defense. Once McNabb get's up to speed on the offense suddenly it will look like we're deep at receiver. At this point Vincent Jackson is a 'nice to have' not a necessity.

Now lets go eat a God damn snack.

........Yah....but we could've lost....if we didn't win!!!!
.......I'll be gettin' a snack

[Shadowbyte]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

In all honesty Cooley and Davis should be able to make catches in the red zone. Like I said before it's only week 1 but we're going up against a defense that just gave up 433 passing yards (yeah I know only week 1 but blah blah blah I agree I'm a hypocrite). I think with time we'll find out that our receiving corps is much better then the general sentiment going around this past week and most of that will come from McNabb's improved handle on the offense.

And hey, worse comes to worse we find another receiver this offseason. We don't need to do everything in one offseason.

I certainly agree that Cooley and Davis are capable of making those tough endzone catches. Unfortunately defenses are always doubling Cooley in those situations, that's why it's imperative that our WR's can make those cathces when they have 1 on 1 coverage. I do agree that everything doesn't have to be done this year, considering the fact that next years draft will be steeped with good WR prospects.