Next years QB

[donofriose]

Originally Posted by Alvin Walton

Same play.
Different QB.

I agree. RG3 is not Aaron Rogers, the MVP from last year.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Personally, I'm done with analyzing the mistakes that RGIII made last season. I'm ready to turn the page and see what he has to offer this season.

For me, the bottom line is that RGIII, despite his flaws, is still the key to winning for this team. If he can somehow become as productive as he was in 2012, we'll become instant contenders. If not, I believe that we'll continue to struggle, regardless off any improvements we may make in other areas.

But please carry on with the discussion. It helps to pass the time until it's football season again.

I agree that our QB play is the key to to us being contenders, but disagree that it has to be RGIII. Now that our team around our qb is better, it does have to be a Superman effort by our QB to win. Just play well enough to keep the chains moving and the scoreboard moving.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Its a bootleg. Not a screen or whatever other narrative you invent.

Somehow the sentiments expressed above make it hard to believe that you actually believe this:

Incorrect.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Personally, I'm done with analyzing the mistakes that RGIII made last season.

My problem is that I'm such a football nerve that I welcome any type of play/film based discussion. I could talk football xs and os and concepts all day everyday. I just wish there was more open and objective discussion about on the field play.

But, I hear you on ready to see what happens this year.

I'm ready to turn the page and see what he has to offer this season. For me, the bottom line is that RGIII, despite his flaws, is still the key to winning for this team. If he can somehow become as productive as he was in 2012, we'll become instant contenders. If not, I believe that we'll continue to struggle, regardless off any improvements we may make in other areas.

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I agree that our QB play is the key to to us being contenders, but disagree that it has to be RGIII. Now that our team around our qb is better, it does have to be a Superman effort by our QB to win. Just play well enough to keep the chains moving and the scoreboard moving.

I would agree in a vacuum that yes Robert is the key to this team going forward.

But Robert's success is tied directly with our offensive coaching staff's ability to get the most out of him. And that is something Jay and McVay couldn't do last year. And that's without getting into the all the Jay-Griffin relationship dynamic. At the end of the day the Jay's offense worked better with Colt/Kirk then with Griffin. But to be clear regardless of who played QB Jay's offense wasn't good last year.

Too much emphasis on the passing game which was the weakest unit on offense and not enough emphasis on the running game which was the best unit on the offense.

It will be interesting to see which direction the offense takes this season. Will the coaching staff follow Scott's run based influence or will Jay's pass focused WCO concepts be the focus?

The answer to that question along with how much Matt Cavanaugh can help Griffin and the other QBs will be critical to this year's success.

[Bangee7]

Originally Posted by 30gut

....

But Robert's success is tied directly with our offensive coaching staff's ability to get the most out of him. And that is something Jay and McVay couldn't do last year. And that's without getting into the all the Jay-Griffin relationship dynamic. ....

I just watched a show on Brett Favre's career this week. We all know what he accomplished in his career- multiple MVP's, SB win, etc.

But, when he started out in ATL, he missed the team picture because he was drunk/hung over.

When he started out in Green Bay, he said the coaches kept talking about nickel packages and he'd nod his head...later he asked Ty Detmer , "what do the coaches mean by nickel?"

Holmgren saw his abilities and stayed patient. He told him "our futures are linked together".

It just got me thinking that maybe RG3 still has time and maybe this year's changes to provide him with a confidant (Cavanaugh), instead of the public critiques might be the best way to manage his talent.

Only time will tell, but I have renewed optimism after watching the Favre piece.

[Evilgrin]

Rich Gannon stunk until he was like 30.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Bangee7

I just watched a show on Brett Favre's career this week....Holmgren saw his abilities and stayed patient. He told him "our futures are linked together".

It just got me thinking that maybe RG3 still has time and maybe this year's changes to provide him with a confidant (Cavanaugh), instead of the public critiques might be the best way to manage his talent.

Only time will tell, but I have renewed optimism after watching the Favre piece.

I hear ya bro. Favre was one of my favorite QBs back in the day so I recorded all the Brett Favre specials that NFLN showed a couple weeks ago.

I think many fans forget that the QB-Playcaller OC/HC and staff relationship has its ups and downs. Andy Reid and Mooch would often take blame for mistakes that Favre would make to protect him from Mike Holmgren. And Holmgren himself was cognizant of his relationship/demeanor with Favre. A QB coach plays a vital in a WCO system that was missing last year.

Although I am still worried about Jay's level of commitment to Griffin, I still have faith in Griffin's ability and IF the staff w/ the help of Cavanaugh can better understand how to use Griffin I think he could have the best year of his career. But that's a big IF.

And I don't get the feeling that Jay/staff ever embraced Griffin the way Holmgren says here....“In Green Bay, remember when Brett was really struggling, and I held a coaches’ meeting and took a vote on who should start—Favre or [Mark] Brunell? We were in the coaches’ meeting, and Favre had done something stupid the last game, and Brunell came in and played by the numbers and played well. And I said, ‘We’re going to go around the room and tell me what you think. [Quarterbacks coach] Steve Mariucci wanted Favre. A lot of the other coaches, good football coaches, voted for Brunell. I said thanks. I went down, thought about it, called [Favre] in the next morning, told him he was the guy. I told him, ‘We’re either going to the top of the mountain together or we’re going to the dumpster together. But we’re in this together.’ That’s what you have to do. I’m convinced of it. Absolutely convinced.

“But what that can mean, however, and it’s scary, is it can mean if it fails, you fail, and you lose your job. But that’s part of it. You’ve got to be willing to pick a guy and be behind him. Coach your a– off, fix what needs to be fixed, and you might not know what you have after one year or two years, but you’ll know after three years. You’ve got to give him a real chance.”

But I think Scott does.

Cheers to a good season!

[Hog1]

I'm looking for .............this guy
Relive the Play "Electrifying"

[scowan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I'm looking for .............this guy
Relive the Play "Electrifying"

Here is my question for all of you. How are the Redskins any different from any other team if we don't run the Read-Option some? They can try to make RGIII a pocket QB like Andy Dalton is, (Jay Gruden as OC) and we all saw that Andy was successful to a point, but the thing that made this team successful in the past (2012) was the Read-Option. If RGIII is going to become a pocket passer to fit Jay's scheme, then we have the wrong QB for the job. Yes Robert has a bigger arm than Kirk or Colt, but he is going to have to improve his decision making enormously for this team to take the next step.

They don't want him to be "Electrifying" anymore they want him to be Andy Dalton.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by scowan

Here is my question for all of you. How are the Redskins any different from any other team if we don't run the Read-Option some? They can try to make RGIII a pocket QB like Andy Dalton is, (Jay Gruden as OC) and we all saw that Andy was successful to a point, but the thing that made this team successful in the past (2012) was the Read-Option. If RGIII is going to become a pocket passer to fit Jay's scheme, then we have the wrong QB for the job. Yes Robert has a bigger arm than Kirk or Colt, but he is going to have to improve his decision making enormously for this team to take the next step.

They don't want him to be "Electrifying" anymore they want him to be Andy Dalton.

The bolded part is where your thinking and my thinking diverge. You seem to be at the point where you've concluded that he can't be a pocket passer. Based on last year, particularly the Tampa game, I can't argue. But given his contract situation we have this year to decide whether he can progress enough to make the option year salary worthwhile.

So while I don't like his progress to date at all, I'm not going to conclude that he can't be a pocket passer because the contract situation dictates that I don't have to decide that yet.

That and we don't have a better QB on the roster.

I would continue with the pocket development and let him use the athleticism to scramble. I'd avoid too many designed runs, busting those out only when the game is in do or die mode (that's what the Seahawks do). Definitely supportive of the offensive gameplan as Jay describes it currently.

[JPPT1974]

Thing is that RGIII needs to trust Jay and work his scheme of things. As really needs to work more on his arm. Then he does his legs.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by scowan

Here is my question for all of you. How are the Redskins any different from any other team if we don't run the Read-Option some? ........
They don't want him to be "Electrifying" anymore they want him to be Andy Dalton.

Good question.

If the read-option isn't more then a sprinkle then I agree with you that the offense won't be much different then the Bengals or any other west coast based offense.

Personally I think Griffin's arm talent/passing talent is superior to Dalton. I think IF and admittedly its a big IF but IF the Jay-Griffin marriage works I think Griffin can put up better passing numbers then Dalton.

But, I would rather have a Seattle type offense then a Jay Gruden Bengals style offense.

[That Guy]

without better pocket presence, RGIII is doomed to failure. his arm and accuracy are fine, but he can't feel the rush, he takes his eyes off the field too quickly and he sometimes makes bad decisions.

the first two are instincts and hard to fix, so while i'd love to see it happen, I'm really not betting the farm on it. If he has 1991 mark rypien type protection from the OL, then that can hide those shortcomings and make him look amazing. otherwise, I expect to see more struggles and up and down moments this year.

[scowan]

Originally Posted by 30gut

But, I would rather have a Seattle type offense then a Jay Gruden Bengals style offense.

I would also rather have the Seattle Offense, I think we have the QB and RB for it, AND better receivers than Seattle, but Russell Wilson knows how to not get hurt but Robert Griffin can't seem to figure that out for some reason. I guess what I'm getting at is that turning RG3 into another maybe better Andy Dalton does not play to RG3's strengths.

I loved how the Shananhans built an offense for Griffin to play to his strengths and it would have been great to continue it, but he doesn't know how to not get hurt and he takes too many chances and/or hits. So now we are left with Jay trying to re-invent RG3 into a pocket passer. Probably won't work but maybe they will prove me wrong. I sure hope so.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by scowan

.....I guess what I'm getting at is that turning RG3 into another maybe better Andy Dalton does not play to RG3's strengths.

I agree with your overarching point about how Griffin fits in Jay's offense. But for me the issue isn't about playing to Griffin strengths the issue is that Jay's offense even at an optimal level isn't as good as Bevel's and having Griffin and Alfred and our receivers makes our offense potentially even better then Seattle's; which is very good.

I loved how the Shananhans built an offense for Griffin to play to his strengths and it would have been great to continue it, but he doesn't know how to not get hurt and he takes too many chances and/or hits. So now we are left with Jay trying to re-invent RG3 into a pocket passer. Probably won't work but maybe they will prove me wrong. I sure hope so.

I liked the Shanahan offense to an extent it was great in year one but didn't progress/expand in year 2. I think the ideal offense for Griffin is a more Baylor style offense like Chip Kelly which uses spread+zone read as opposed to base personnel pistol read-option.
In the Chip Kelly or even Seattle zone-read offenses the QB is better able to protect themselves when running which would help protect Griffin who remains a straight line runner more then a shifty/aware runner.

I don't get caught up in the whole 're-inventing Griffin as a pocket passer narrative' historically if you isolate Griffin's non-playaction passing attempts he's always rated higher then Kirk Cousins. So I don't believe Griffin's problems as a QB aren't due to inability as a "pocket passer" but more about his knowledge and comfort in Jay's offense and I put that as much on coaching as the player. Griffin's struggles last year are a joint failing in which the HC/OC/QB coach are also culpable.