Former FBI officials list growing

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

LOL you really overlooked the Obama Presidency and how he used the executive powers.

Sir, this playbook was written by Obama...hence the ease in simply ordering or revoking Trump has done. If Obama couldn't implement legislation, he by passed congress....NOT as a short term strategy BUT a long term one with executive powers. His strategy became "WE Cant Wait" and would by pass congress again and again.

I suggest you read this article from the NYT:

Shift on Executive Power Lets Obama Bypass Rivals

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/u...-congress.html


Stop trying to re-write history, Ive noticed this a lot lately...everything from somehow Trump was responsible for the Russia hacking during his own Election to comments like these.

Did people just blindly follow Obama without knowing what he was doing?

I'm referring to the volume sir. Obama might have started it as a response to Congress' unwillingness to do anything, but Trump doesn't have that excuse. He's treating the Presidency much like he did his business, where he's at the center of power and everything goes through him. He expects undying loyalty from everyone who works for the gov't, and rewards those that give itto him while blaming everything on those that don't.

If he loses next election and a Dem takes the seat again with a Republican majority in Congress, I expect the trend to continue.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by mooby

I'm referring to the volume sir. Obama might have started it as a response to Congress' unwillingness to do anything, but Trump doesn't have that excuse. He's treating the Presidency much like he did his business, where he's at the center of power and everything goes through him. He expects undying loyalty from everyone who works for the gov't, and rewards those that give itto him while blaming everything on those that don't.

If he loses next election and a Dem takes the seat again with a Republican majority in Congress, I expect the trend to continue.

Sir...I do believe some of these executive orders should be brought to a vote and some sort of limits placed. That goes for Obamas and trumps of the world.

[JoeRedskin]

The abuse of executive power has been a constant stress on our republican govt. (small r) since its inception. However, Obama simply took it to another level saying: "Okay, if Congress won't pass laws I like, I will bypass the Constitutional process and implement the policies I like by fiat." Anyone who had to deal with the EEOC or other federal watchdogs knows exactly how abusive this process was.

In higher education based on "Dear Colleague Letters" from the Education Department, entire codes of conduct were rewritten, burdens of prove lightened, etc. The result was that many institutions had to go to huge expense by the Executive branch saying "Do it our way or we cut off your funding, investigate your every action in the subject area regardless of whether it is related to specific complaint brought to us, and blacklist you so that your enrollment drops." All without any legislative oversight. It was a ridiculous abuse of the executive power and resulted in many, many terrible consequences for individuals and institutions.

I said then and I say now, Obama and the left paved the way for Trump's abuses. By saying, "We don't need no stinking Congress," they steamrolled through the very procedures that they now seek to invoke.

[Chico23231]

its humorous that the left will do anything to protect/rewrite the Obama legacy...they fail to acknowledge any of the many failures.

Clearly Obama paved the way with the abusive executive powers...

[MTK]

Hey man your guy did it first, so technically your guy is to blame for my guy

That’s what we’re down to basically

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by MTK

Hey man your guy did it first, so technically your guy is to blame for my guy

That’s what we’re down to basically

Remember that when Obama was doing this there were a lot of people saying you shouldn't create this precedent. Now we're saying you created this precedent. All of us would rather the Congress, and I include Republicans and Democrats, would come to these legislative Solutions properly and through the proper form but neither side wants to work with the other. That's what's most frustrating about this at least to me. There are clearly solutions that most Americans could agree on I believe even if it means compromising on some things but the Congressional leadership is stuck pandering to the F* Trump or anti Obama groupings.

[JoeRedskin]

Yes. No. Sorta. I mean - it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Both Trump and Obama bear the blame individually for their own actions. At the same time, if you are the guy who opened the door, you have to own that. If you supported that guy, then you have to own that.

Obama opened the door - Democrats need to own that. Trump is charging through it - Republicans need to own that.

[MTK]

Let’s not pretend executive orders started with Obama, or that he should be crowned King of them. Plenty of other Presidents utilized a lot more than he did.

[JoeRedskin]

Sure, other Presidents used and misused the executive order process. However, prior to Obama, even the misuses were characterized as an appropriate use of executive power (explaining how existing laws would be enforced, invoking the Constitutional authority of Commander-in-Chief, etc.).

Under the Obama administration, and for the first time that I am aware, the President used executive orders with the express intent of bypassing the Constitutional process and to use the executive power to take legislative actions on a broader scale then ever before. Very simply, even though he issued fewer than most presidents before him, the breadth and scope of the orders he issued, particularly after 2016, were simply unprecedented.

[MTK]

http://theconversation.com/how-does-...esidents-65773

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by MTK

Let’s not pretend executive orders started with Obama, or that he should be crowned King of them. Plenty of other Presidents utilized a lot more than he did.

A pen and a phone.

Let's not pretend that Pres Obama didn't specifically call out the use of them, as a specific way of not working with the majority in congress:

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by MTK

How does Obama's use of unilateral powers compare to other presidents?

these are being counted from whomever this dude is...

An executive memorandum is essentially an executive order. The difference: An executive memorandum does not have an established process for how the president issues it. Memoranda do not have to be submitted to the Federal Register and are therefore harder to track. President Obama utilized executive memorandum at least 407 times, including on DACA (the immigration policy), gun control and the overtime rule.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

A pen and a phone.



Let's not pretend that Pres Obama didn't specifically call out the use of them, as a specific way of not working with the majority in congress:

I forgot about how willing Congress was to even work with him in the first place.

Trump is dealing with same thing now, except he can’t even work with a GOP controlled Congress.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

An executive memorandum is essentially an executive order. The difference: An executive memorandum does not have an established process for how the president issues it. Memoranda do not have to be submitted to the Federal Register and are therefore harder to track. President Obama utilized executive memorandum at least 407 times, including on DACA (the immigration policy), gun control and the overtime rule.

^^ This +100. Executive Memos like the Dept. of Ed's "Dear Colleague Letters" fundamentally changed the how institutions of higher education had to apply their student conduct codes in ways that were, according to the courts, in direct violation of due process. It took this regulatory action with no legislative oversight and without any pre-implementation comment period.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by MTK

I forgot about how willing Congress was to even work with him in the first place.

Trump is dealing with same thing now, except he can’t even work with a GOP controlled Congress.

It takes 2, I disagreed with the Republican congress then and now. It's like they simply want to cause discord.

With all that said, Pres Obama wasn't ever moving from a progressive liberal agenda - that I remember.



There is a middle ground, but the F Trumpers and the anti-Obamites blame Obama/Trump for everything and refuse to find what most citizens want.