Does character count?

irish · 05-05-2005, 10:18 AM

Malcolm, your statement seems to contradict itself. First you say he didnt get rewarded for holding out, then you say he got what he wanted by holding out. I'm confused.

I dont care what amount of $ he was paid or if it was in or out of line with other receivers, he held out and was rewarded for doing it. This is why the skins are in the mess that they are in, players that have never done anything come here for a payday. They know it, their agents know it and its killing this team.

MTK · 05-05-2005, 10:24 AM

If part of the agreement with Moss and the Skins was that he would get a new deal upon his arrival here (which apparently was the case), then I can't blame Moss too much for holding out. A deal's a deal.

If he has a monster season and then holds out again next year, I'll be irked.

firstdown · 05-05-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Unfortunately it looks like the skins will tolerate or at least reward TO-like behavior. Moss gets his contract fixed after holding out, Taylor's new contract is on the way. Like someone said, talent will make some tems put up with this crap for a little while. Too bad the skins seem to be one of those teams.

I would not put Moss in the category as a hold out. He only missed voluntary work outs. Yes he should have been with his team but I would have to save hold out for missing a mandator pratice or camp.

TheMalcolmConnection · 05-05-2005, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Malcolm, your statement seems to contradict itself. First you say he didnt get rewarded for holding out, then you say he got what he wanted by holding out. I'm confused.

I dont care what amount of $ he was paid or if it was in or out of line with other receivers, he held out and was rewarded for doing it. This is why the skins are in the mess that they are in, players that have never done anything come here for a payday. They know it, their agents know it and its killing this team.

Just like Matty said, "A deal is a deal." The contract was due regardless of holdout. He could have shown up at the park, been at all the workouts and still would have gotten a new contract. When I say he didn't get rewarded, I'm saying we didn't overpay him because of his holdout. We paid him, what I feel, is a typical amount for an above average receiver.

Schneed10 · 05-05-2005, 10:38 AM

He may have stayed home from workouts until he got his contract, but that doesn't mean the Skins were giving into his demands. Signing him now was just smart business. The guy is a free agent after this season. He just came off a bad year, so now is the time to strike if you want to get him for a discount price. If he puts up 1100 yards and 8 TDs this year, I guarantee you he'll command a lot more than what we just paid him. His "holdout" isn't what motivated the Skins to sign him. They signed him because they felt they could lock him in long-term at a price that they think will prove to be very worth it.

Now, how good Moss really is can be debated. But if you think he's a #1 receiver, as they do, then signing him now was smart.

If you think he's a bum, then that something entirely different.

TheMalcolmConnection · 05-05-2005, 10:42 AM

A little off subject, I was looking at that interview with Rosenhaus. DAMN, that guy is such a douche. I did like the things he had to say about the Skins as a team (not the comment about Snyder though).

irish · 05-05-2005, 10:43 AM

If you think the skins have locked moss in long-term then you are fooling yourself. If he has the kind of season you mention he will no doubt want a new contract and hold out again. However its doubtful the skins would pay because for whatever reason the skins dont seem to hang onto guys, theyd rather bring in new guys and pay them. There is no such thing as long-term in the nfl today.

firstdown · 05-05-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

We had our share of problematic players in Gibbs' first stint. Riggins being the classic example.

Of course every team is going to have a couple of guys that don't fit your ideal mold, but the idea is to surround those couple of players with guys that do.

I read and article that talkd about how Gibbs had to deal with the same player behavor back in the 80's and then they talked about 5 or 6 different players. After I read the article I realized that things have not changed very much egos, holdouts, etc...

TheMalcolmConnection · 05-05-2005, 10:46 AM

I'd prefer us to deal with players like the Eagles do. Let them act like that and sit on the bench or get the hell out. That way, when we DO get players, they know what they are signing on for.

Schneed10 · 05-05-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

If you think the skins have locked moss in long-term then you are fooling yourself. If he has the kind of season you mention he will no doubt want a new contract and hold out again. However its doubtful the skins would pay because for whatever reason the skins dont seem to hang onto guys, theyd rather bring in new guys and pay them. There is no such thing as long-term in the nfl today.

This is foolishness. Santana Moss isn't the same kind of bad-character guy that T.O. is. He won't demand a new contract next year. Take it to the bank.

SmootSmack · 05-05-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

I read and article that talkd about how Gibbs had to deal with the same player behavor back in the 80's and then they talked about 5 or 6 different players. After I read the article I realized that things have not changed very much egos, holdouts, etc...

I think the difference is that now players have more freedom to move than they did back then. Teams looked the other way back then because the players had no real leverage.

FRPLG · 05-05-2005, 11:56 AM

The difference is now there are more me "first and only" type guys. Riggins is a classic example of a trouble maker back in the day. He was selfish and thought little of other people or players...outside of the game. But when it came to playing football and being a team mate he fell into line. Nowadays guys like TO not only cause problems organizationally they also create issues within the team dynamic. I would feel somewhat differently about his current antics if he hadn't thrown McNabb under the bus. That shows you right there that the guy has absolutly no quality character bones in his body. He is a dumb shit asshole who only cares about himself and will stab anybody or team in the backs to increase in wallet and notoriety. What a idiot. At least Taylor isn't going around bad mouthing team mates or coaches in the media. TO is such a huge distraction that I can only think of one team more deserving...the Cowcraps.

Daseal · 05-05-2005, 11:57 AM

I still can't figure out how people can say Winslow has a poor character for getting into a bike accident. By the way, I didn't see this mentioned anywhere else - he was LEARNING how to ride in a parking lot. So he wasn't on the road when this happened. Everyone has to learn HOW to ride a bike.
"With his leg still on the mend, Winslow purchased a sport bike last month and was learning how to ride it in a parking lot when he hit a curb."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2053370

TheMalcolmConnection · 05-05-2005, 11:58 AM

I bet TO gets in the Hall of Fame before Monk. Pieces of shit like Irvin (who STILL isn't as bad as TO) will make it in! ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH.

Daseal · 05-05-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

The difference is now there are more me "first and only" type guys. Riggins is a classic example of a trouble maker back in the day. He was selfish and thought little of other people or players...outside of the game. But when it came to playing football and being a team mate he fell into line. Nowadays guys like TO not only cause problems organizationally they also create issues within the team dynamic. I would feel somewhat differently about his current antics if he hadn't thrown McNabb under the bus. That shows you right there that the guy has absolutly no quality character bones in his body. He is a dumb shit asshole who only cares about himself and will stab anybody or team in the backs to increase in wallet and notoriety. What a idiot. At least Taylor isn't going around bad mouthing team mates or coaches in the media. TO is such a huge distraction that I can only think of one team more deserving...the Cowcraps.

Does this mean Jon Jansen isn't a team guy? Didn't he throw Sean Taylor under the bus on draft day? At least TO made remarks about a game, Jansen got nasty with the man's personal life.

05-05-2005, 10:18 AM	#16
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: Does character count? Malcolm, your statement seems to contradict itself. First you say he didnt get rewarded for holding out, then you say he got what he wanted by holding out. I'm confused. I dont care what amount of $ he was paid or if it was in or out of line with other receivers, he held out and was rewarded for doing it. This is why the skins are in the mess that they are in, players that have never done anything come here for a payday. They know it, their agents know it and its killing this team.

05-05-2005, 10:24 AM	#17
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,706	Re: Does character count? If part of the agreement with Moss and the Skins was that he would get a new deal upon his arrival here (which apparently was the case), then I can't blame Moss too much for holding out. A deal's a deal. If he has a monster season and then holds out again next year, I'll be irked.

05-05-2005, 10:38 AM	#20
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 45 Posts: 12,437	Re: Does character count? He may have stayed home from workouts until he got his contract, but that doesn't mean the Skins were giving into his demands. Signing him now was just smart business. The guy is a free agent after this season. He just came off a bad year, so now is the time to strike if you want to get him for a discount price. If he puts up 1100 yards and 8 TDs this year, I guarantee you he'll command a lot more than what we just paid him. His "holdout" isn't what motivated the Skins to sign him. They signed him because they felt they could lock him in long-term at a price that they think will prove to be very worth it. Now, how good Moss really is can be debated. But if you think he's a #1 receiver, as they do, then signing him now was smart. If you think he's a bum, then that something entirely different.

05-05-2005, 10:42 AM	#21
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,237	Re: Does character count? A little off subject, I was looking at that interview with Rosenhaus. DAMN, that guy is such a douche. I did like the things he had to say about the Skins as a team (not the comment about Snyder though). __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

05-05-2005, 10:43 AM	#22
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: Does character count? If you think the skins have locked moss in long-term then you are fooling yourself. If he has the kind of season you mention he will no doubt want a new contract and hold out again. However its doubtful the skins would pay because for whatever reason the skins dont seem to hang onto guys, theyd rather bring in new guys and pay them. There is no such thing as long-term in the nfl today.

05-05-2005, 10:46 AM	#24
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,237	Re: Does character count? I'd prefer us to deal with players like the Eagles do. Let them act like that and sit on the bench or get the hell out. That way, when we DO get players, they know what they are signing on for. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

05-05-2005, 11:56 AM	#27
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Re: Does character count? The difference is now there are more me "first and only" type guys. Riggins is a classic example of a trouble maker back in the day. He was selfish and thought little of other people or players...outside of the game. But when it came to playing football and being a team mate he fell into line. Nowadays guys like TO not only cause problems organizationally they also create issues within the team dynamic. I would feel somewhat differently about his current antics if he hadn't thrown McNabb under the bus. That shows you right there that the guy has absolutly no quality character bones in his body. He is a dumb shit asshole who only cares about himself and will stab anybody or team in the backs to increase in wallet and notoriety. What a idiot. At least Taylor isn't going around bad mouthing team mates or coaches in the media. TO is such a huge distraction that I can only think of one team more deserving...the Cowcraps.

05-05-2005, 11:57 AM	#28
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Re: Does character count? I still can't figure out how people can say Winslow has a poor character for getting into a bike accident. By the way, I didn't see this mentioned anywhere else - he was LEARNING how to ride in a parking lot. So he wasn't on the road when this happened. Everyone has to learn HOW to ride a bike. "With his leg still on the mend, Winslow purchased a sport bike last month and was learning how to ride it in a parking lot when he hit a curb." http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2053370 __________________ Best. Player. Available.

05-05-2005, 11:58 AM	#29
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,237	Re: Does character count? I bet TO gets in the Hall of Fame before Monk. Pieces of shit like Irvin (who STILL isn't as bad as TO) will make it in! ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

Does character count?

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