NFLPA Files Collusion Lawsuit Against NFL, Owners

[SBXVII]

I think it's going to get interesting. Not only do the owners (to include the Skins) now have to worry about this claim but I'd imagine their possibly losing their exemption as well.


I wonder if Hoop has any incite he'd like to add to this new developement?

[Evilgrin]

It's pretty funny to watch this all blow up in Goodell's face, they had to look beyond the penalties that they gave to 4 teams, and they didn't.

[SBXVII]

The problem is I think the NFL thinks it's bigger then it really is. It thinks all the owners will when faced with a penalty or punishment will take said punishment and forget about it.... kinda like how the Mafia works. Instead in this new day and age the new young owners of today simply don't take this crap laying down.


What I really wonder is how much of this was the NFLPA waiting to see how our appeal played out before they filed and how much the Redskins and Cowboys are assisting in the process? Could there have been a behind the scene's agreement between the two teams and the NFLPA to admit there was collusion for their assistance? Technically the 4 teams who didn't participate should not be punished even though they are a part of the group.

[Evilgrin]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

The problem is I think the NFL thinks it's bigger then it really is. It thinks all the owners will when faced with a penalty or punishment will take said punishment and forget about it.... kinda like how the Mafia works. Instead in this new day and age the new young owners of today simply don't take this crap laying down.


What I really wonder is how much of this was the NFLPA waiting to see how our appeal played out before they filed and how much the Redskins and Cowboys are assisting in the process? Could there have been a behind the scene's agreement between the two teams and the NFLPA to admit there was collusion for their assistance? Technically the 4 teams who didn't participate should not be punished even though they are a part of the group.

Technically, but pretty sure they can't avoid damages because they are part of the NFL?

I think there is no coincidence they waited for the hearing to be dismissed, and then filed, it's probably another piece of evidence.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

The problem is I think the NFL thinks it's bigger then it really is. It thinks all the owners will when faced with a penalty or punishment will take said punishment and forget about it.... kinda like how the Mafia works. Instead in this new day and age the new young owners of today simply don't take this crap laying down.


What I really wonder is how much of this was the NFLPA waiting to see how our appeal played out before they filed and how much the Redskins and Cowboys are assisting in the process? Could there have been a behind the scene's agreement between the two teams and the NFLPA to admit there was collusion for their assistance? Technically the 4 teams who didn't participate should not be punished even though they are a part of the group.

I dont think the Skins/Cowboys likely were in talks with the PA, as they are still the enemy really. I think it's probably more closely tied to the PA being prepared to file this the moment the arbitrator rendered judgement. You hold off in filing to possibly gather more ammunition for the filing. The arbitrators decision decided that they would have to run with what they had already. Basically public statements.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

@ Joe - It sounds like the Redskins, Cowboys, Raiders and Saints are essentially witness for the plaintiff. If the NFLPA is suing the owners (is that who they are suing) is there any reason to think any of those teams will be forced to testify essentially against themselves. Is this civil court? Don’t you have to testify in civil court if youre a witness, even if youre the defendant? Any chance any of these 4 teams would want to join as plaintiffs? Is that even possible?

- It is a civil action - more correctly, it is the continuation of an already settled civil action. The NFLPA has requested that the Federal District Court reopen the 1993 Settlement Agreement between the NFLPA that resolved the lawsuit which, eventually, initiated the unrestricted free agent era. All CBA's since then have been approved by the Federal Court as amendments to the original 1993 Settlement agreement.

- If you're called as a witness, yes, you must testify. Of course, if your memory goes bad on the stand ... well, that's just the way it goes ...
Q: Mr. Snyder do you remember Mr. Mara telling you about an agreement to keep players salaries down during the uncapped year?
A: I have no recollection of any such conversation.
Q: What about this e-mail in which you reference just such a conversation, does that refresh your recollection at all??
A: Nope, I don't remember anything about it. etc., etc., etc.

- Each of the 32 clubs and the NFL as an entity are defendants in the original action. Any defendant is allowed to make cross-claims against the other defendants seeking indemnity and/or other relief. So, yes, the Skins could file a cross-claim and assert that they did not partake in the collusive agreement and, in fact, were subsequently punished for doing so. They could then seek damages in their own right and/or ask that they be indemnified against any damages awarded to the players. The problem, of course, is that, by failing to make the secret agreeement public, the Skins did partake in collusive behavior - just not to the extent that the rest of the league did.

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

So if this is the “nuclear option” it makes you think the Redskins/Cowboys knew this would happen based off of their arguments in arbitration. It kind of sounds like we did go nuclear, right?

I wouldn't speculate as to what the Skins "knew" would happen. I think (and I am pretty sure I said so early in the prior thread) that, once Mara made his comments, he opened the league up to this kind of action regardless of the Redskins filing a complaint. If anything, I think the Skins & Cowboys tried hard to contain the fight by pursuing it through their weakest legal avenue. Again, as far as the collusion goes, Snyder's and Jerry's hands are not exactly pristine. To a certain extent, they were playing both ends against the middle and it now has the potential to spiral wayyyy beyond their initial manipulations.

[Evilgrin]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

- It is a civil action - more correctly, it is the continuation of an already settled civil action. The NFLPA has requested that the Federal District Court reopen the 1993 Settlement Agreement between the NFLPA that resolved the lawsuit which, eventually, initiated the unrestricted free agent era. All CBA's since then have been approved by the Federal Court as amendments to the original 1993 Settlement agreement.

- If you're called as a witness, yes, you must testify. Of course, if your memory goes bad on the stand ... well, that's just the way it goes ...
Q: Mr. Snyder do you remember Mr. Mara telling you about an agreement to keep players salaries down during the uncapped year?
A: I have no recollection of any such conversation.
Q: What about this e-mail in which you reference just such a conversation, does that refresh your recollection at all??
A: Nope, I don't remember anything about it. etc., etc., etc.

- Each of the 32 clubs and the NFL as an entity are defendants in the original action. Any defendant is allowed to make cross-claims against the other defendants seeking indemnity and/or other relief. So, yes, the Skins could file a cross-claim and assert that they did not partake in the collusive agreement and, in fact, were subsequently punished for doing so. They could then seek damages in their own right and/or ask that they be indemnified against any damages awarded to the players. The problem, of course, is that, by failing to make the secret agreeement public, the Skins did partake in collusive behavior - just not to the extent that the rest of the league did.



I wouldn't speculate as to what the Skins "knew" would happen. I think (and I am pretty sure I said so early in the prior thread) that, once Mara made his comments, he opened the league up to this kind of action regardless of the Redskins filing a complaint. If anything, I think the Skins & Cowboys tried hard to contain the fight by pursuing it through their weakest legal avenue. Again, as far as the collusion goes, Snyder's and Jerry's hands are not exactly pristine. To a certain extent, they were playing both ends against the middle and it now has the potential to spiral wayyyy beyond their initial manipulations.

So what are the chances this thing continues, can the original decision not be reopened?

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by Evilgrin

So what are the chances this thing continues, can the original decision not be reopened?

Don't they stand alone? That decision is not relavent to the collusion in question?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I dont think the Skins/Cowboys likely were in talks with the PA, as they are still the enemy really. I think it's probably more closely tied to the PA being prepared to file this the moment the arbitrator rendered judgement. You hold off in filing to possibly gather more ammunition for the filing. The arbitrators decision decided that they would have to run with what they had already. Basically public statements.

This. Part of the arbitration decision indicated that the Cowboys and Skins were seeking document discovery concerning the alleged collusion. I am sure the NFLPA was also interested in those types of documents and wanted to see what would come out in the arbitration.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

@ Smoot - you said you heard about this as a possibility a couple days ago. Do you know if NFLPA only planned to sue IF the lawsuit was dismissed?

Perhaps they intended to do so all along but were waiting for any documents that may have been released if the arbitration claim had gone foward? The NFLPA is basing their suit in part on the arbitration claim the Redskins/Cowboys had; however, i find it odd that the NFLPA waited until the day after that was dismissed.

@ Joe - It sounds like the Redskins, Cowboys, Raiders and Saints are essentially witness for the plaintiff. If the NFLPA is suing the owners (is that who they are suing) is there any reason to think any of those teams will be forced to testify essentially against themselves. Is this civil court? Don’t you have to testify in civil court if youre a witness, even if youre the defendant? Any chance any of these 4 teams would want to join as plaintiffs? Is that even possible?

So if this is the “nuclear option” it makes you think the Redskins/Cowboys knew this would happen based off of their arguments in arbitration. It kind of sounds like we did go nuclear, right?

I don't know. All I was told was a potential lawsuit by the NFLPA alleging collusion could be coming this week

[FRPLG]

Uggg...what a bunch of donkey idiots the owners are. Unless they get off on the language of the CBA waiving rights on these claims they're likely going to get their ass handed to them.

Jones and Snyder then are going to have to pay on both ends...for not colluding...and for their ass-hat partners actually colluding. Ain't that rich!

How in the world these guys thought they could do this, strike that...

How in the world these guys thought they could publicly punish two teams for this and that it wasn't openly admitting collusion is seriously baffling. I have to think their lawyers must not have been seriously consulted. I can't even think that Goodell thought this was a good idea. It justs reeks of a couple owners, dumb ones at that, deciding to seek revenge against other owners and openly poking the NFPLA in the eye with a stick in doing so. Epic stupidity.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

And if they win it, it means the next CBA battle will be fought on VERY different terms.

regardless i think it will be fought on very different terms. The NFLPA has been distrustful of the NFL for a while (remember all the concerns regarding the NFLs refusal to open its books?). Now there are additional points to cause distrust:

1. The League knew the salary cap would go DOWN this year; yet negotations were based on the understanding that it would go UP every year
2. When the NFLPA realized the Cap would go down in 2012, the NFL strong-armed them into agreeing to penalize the redskins and cowboys in exchange for deferring future cap money to 2012
3. During the discussions regarding the penalty, the NLFPA became aware that some collusion occured.
4. the NFLPA subsequently discovered that the NFL lied about the extent of hte collusion

Any goodwill the NFL built with the NFLPA in the recent discussions is completely gone. GONE. No doubt, the discovery process of this lawsuit will only uncover more of Goddell and the league's lies.

In the last CBA discussions, the NFL had all the leverage. I fully expect that to change in the new discussions, regardless of the outcome of this suit.

[Evilgrin]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

Don't they stand alone? That decision is not relavent to the collusion in question?

Talking about the '93 reggie white vs nfl decision.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

In the last CBA discussions, the NFL had all the leverage. I fully expect that to change in the new discussions, regardless of the outcome of this suit.

The outcome is very important. While I do believe the next set of negotiations will be different and the NFLPA may have more leverage, if the league somehow loses this then the NFLPA has ALL the leverage in the next CBA. They'll have dinged the league for a massive amount of money that could stock up a "work stoppage" fund to help players financially and public sentiment will largely if not entirely rest on their side.

I SMH at the NFL big time for totally screwing the pooch on this. They basically made it so the NFLPA had to do this. The were so overly public about it. The NFLPA could have just looked the other way behind the scenes but once all the players kwen this had happened they were forced to respond in some manner.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

what really pisses me off about the NFLs position in this is that they had no reason at all to impose the penalties on the skins and cowboys, other than revenge. the NFL got what it wanted in the CBA talks - an deal that heavily favored the league. The skins and cowboys got what they wanted by getting their books clean. IMO Mara's thirst for blood created a complete mess for the league. Mara's public comments only made things worse. the league looks really bad right now, and deservedly so.