Rex Grossman's Three Game Audition

[Defensewins]

I was surprised at small amount of games Grossman has started in his career. Other than 2006 when he started 16 games, his next highest number is 8 games in 2007.

Year Starts
2003 3
2004 3
2005 2
2006 16
2007 8
2008 4
2009 1
2010 4

In 2006 where Grossman started 16 games he threw 20 interceptions. Last season Grossman threw 4 interceptions in just 4 games. Not good. This is a concern because Grossman has started 41 games and has already thrown 40 interceptions. He is a stop gap guy and that is all. I would rather play a young guy and let him learn then waste our time with Grossman who is never going to be elte.

[Ruhskins]

I think we must give Mike Shanahan a chance to work with the likes of Vince Young if he indeed comes here. I feel that Mike Shanahan the disciplinarian has had its ups (the changing of the culture with the team) and downs (Haynesworth and McNabb benching). But I think it could work if VY comes with the sense that this is a second chance and he has the opportunity to be a starter.

People always see the Patriots as the model organization (and they are right). One thing about that organization is that they have the leadership to take any slight problem player (see Randy Moss) and make them work out. We're not always going to get saints and model players in our team, but the team needs to develop a locker/coaching leadership that is able to handle these players and get them in line.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think we must give Mike Shanahan a chance to work with the likes of Vince Young if he indeed comes here. I feel that Mike Shanahan the disciplinarian has had its ups (the changing of the culture with the team) and downs (Haynesworth and McNabb benching). But I think it could work if VY comes with the sense that this is a second chance and he has the opportunity to be a starter.

People always see the Patriots as the model organization (and they are right). One thing about that organization is that they have the leadership to take any slight problem player (see Randy Moss) and make them work out. We're not always going to get saints and model players in our team, but the team needs to develop a locker/coaching leadership that is able to handle these players and get them in line.

You've got to be kidding me. The guy is not a leader of men. He's never going to be a top NFL QB where he can lead a team to a Super Bowl. He's simply not mentally tough enough to be a 16 game starter. I'm fine with him as a back up but nothing more.

[BigSKINBauer]

I can't see many coaches putting up with Vince Young's attitude, especially Shanahan. We need to get away from player distractions.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You've got to be kidding me. The guy is not a leader of men. He's never going to be a top NFL QB where he can lead a team to a Super Bowl. He's simply not mentally tough enough to be a 16 game starter. I'm fine with him as a back up but nothing more.

So you have no confidence in Shanahan working with a guy like VY?

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So you have no confidence in Shanahan working with a guy like VY?

As long as he can finish drives then I'm all for it.

The problem with McNabb, and the Redskins for that matter, this past year was never yardage but rather his inability to convert, weather it be third downs or red zone attempts. It took Donovan 8 games to throw 7 Touchdown Passes.

Grossman on the other hand did it in 3. Granted the rest of the offense had more experience in week 15 then they did in week 1 but to further illustrate McNabb only threw for more then one TD in two games. And that was the Monday Night Beatdown at the hands of Philly and the Tampa game. Again it took Donny 14 games to have two games with at least 2 touchdowns. Grossman on the other hand needed only 3 games.

I'm now convinced that this offense will always get a ton of yards through the air. What we really need is a closer, Grossman ironically proved he could do that. In all liklihood had he started 16 games he would have probably gotten around 20-25 TD passes compared to McNabb's 14 which was on pace for 15 or 16. And I'm tempted to say 18 or 19 seeing as how me missed out on the second Dallas game but as we can see in McNabb's best game of the season he was only able to get one TD against Houston who had a worse secondary then Dallas.

Still I'm intrigued by Becks combination of accuracy, quick release, and potential to anticipate throws.

Looking back on Young at the other hand I'm curious to find out weather or not he can close out drives and throw 30 to 40 times a game. Either way we should bring him in.

In the end I'm looking for someone that can put up at least 25 TD passes, while really hoping for 30.

Notes:
Redskins threw for 4,261 Yards in 2010
Redskins were 31st in 3rd Down Conversions
Finished 25th in Scoring Offense with 18.9 PPG
Matt Schuab threw for 29 TD's in 2009, 24 in 2010
Jay Cutler threw for 25 TD Pass in 2007, 20 in 2006
Cutler had 4 Consecutive 2 TD games in his first 4 starts as a rookie

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

As long as he can finish drives then I'm all for it.

The problem with McNabb, and the Redskins for that matter, this past year was never yardage but rather his inability to convert, weather it be third downs or red zone attempts. It took Donovan 8 games to throw 7 Touchdown Passes.

Grossman on the other hand did it in 3. Granted the rest of the offense had more experience in week 15 then they did in week 1 but to further illustrate McNabb only threw for more then one TD in two games. And that was the Monday Night Beatdown at the hands of Philly and the Tampa game. Again it took Donny 14 games to have two games with at least 2 touchdowns. Grossman on the other hand needed only 3 games.

I'm now convinced that this offense will always get a ton of yards through the air. What we really need is a closer, Grossman ironically proved he could do that. In all liklihood had he started 16 games he would have probably gotten around 20-25 TD passes compared to McNabb's 14 which was on pace for 15 or 16. And I'm tempted to say 18 or 19 seeing as how me missed out on the second Dallas game but as we can see in McNabb's best game of the season he was only able to get one TD against Houston who had a worse secondary then Dallas.

Still I'm intrigued by Becks combination of accuracy, quick release, and potential to anticipate throws.

Looking back on Young at the other hand I'm curious to find out weather or not he can close out drives and throw 30 to 40 times a game. Either way we should bring him in.

In the end I'm looking for someone that can put up at least 25 TD passes, while really hoping for 30.

Notes:
Redskins threw for 4,261 Yards in 2010
Redskins were 31st in 3rd Down Conversions
Finished 25th in Scoring Offense with 18.9 PPG
Matt Schuab threw for 29 TD's in 2009, 24 in 2010
Jay Cutler threw for 25 TD Pass in 2007, 20 in 2006
Cutler had 4 Consecutive 2 TD games in his first 4 starts as a rookie

Apparently "closer" means passing for TDs. So would you not look at td drives that ended w/a rushing td?

As a "closer" 2 of the 3 games RExy started ended w/his throws; v. Dallas w/an int., v. NY w/an overthrow. I know in both of those games there were costly turnovers & defensive breakdowns that weren't his fault, but he still didn't finish games any better than McNabb.

I know you've looked into a lot more than I, I'm just not convinced that Rex was any better than DM. The results were certainly similar.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Apparently "closer" means passing for TDs. So would you not look at td drives that ended w/a rushing td?

As a "closer" 2 of the 3 games RExy started ended w/his throws; v. Dallas w/an int., v. NY w/an overthrow. I know in both of those games there were costly turnovers & defensive breakdowns that weren't his fault, but he still didn't finish games any better than McNabb.

I know you've looked into a lot more than I, I'm just not convinced that Rex was any better than DM. The results were certainly similar.

Of course I would consider rushing TD's but the fact of the matter is the best QB's in the league as well as QB's in this system (both in Denver and Houston) have finished with many multiple TD games. Also McNabb left a good amount of TD passes on the field if you have to consider how many deep balls he under/over threw. Armstrong was probably as shocked as anyone during that Giants game that he was hit in stride by Sexy Rexy.

Anyway maybe the context is wrong and you have a point that these are very general numbers. Still from what I can see over the course of 16 games we would be better off with Rex then we would be with McNabb, in spite of the turnovers.

Either way my wish remains the same. Find someone who can finish drives on their own

Also thanks for reading my post, I'm starting to get to the point where I'm rambling on and on while going in circles

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Of course I would consider rushing TD's but the fact of the matter is the best QB's in the league as well as QB's in this system (both in Denver and Houston) have finished with many multiple TD games. Also McNabb left a good amount of TD passes on the field if you have to consider how many deep balls he under/over threw. Armstrong was probably as shocked as anyone during that Giants game that he was hit in stride by Sexy Rexy.

Anyway maybe the context is wrong and you have a point that these are very general numbers. Still from what I can see over the course of 16 games we would be better off with Rex then we would be with McNabb, in spite of the turnovers.

Either way my wish remains the same. Find someone who can finish drives on their own

Also thanks for reading my post, I'm starting to get to the point where I'm rambling on and on while going in circles

My pleasure, good posts & thread. First off, I found McNabb & Grossman in b&g very weird. Would prefer not to have either one. In a perfect world, we'd already have a young qb we drafted to groom as starter. Of course, that isn't the case.

There are two things going for Rex IMO; his knowledge/experience of the offense, and his desire to become a starter & rebuild his career. Other than that, I don't see much upgrade w/Rex over DM.

McNabb may have just been too comfortable in Philly, might've taken some things for granted due to his experience w/the offense there. Coming into a new system wasn't something he'd done before. He seemed to have that 'old dog - new tricks' issue; kind of tried to get by w/what he's always done, but his age & flaws really showed at times.

What is unfortunate for him & the team is that IF he has any desire to prove people wrong & bounce back w/a Farve like comeback year (see 09), that the personal damage done at this point may have cut too deep to repair any relationship with the staff. If he goes somewhere else he will likely play w/a chip on his shoulder and have a good year. The opportunity to motivate him to do that in DC may be lost, but there's still a small chance Mike S. could smooth it over & bring him back.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So you have no confidence in Shanahan working with a guy like VY?

I have 0 confidence. Has the guy ever shown that he can be a pocket passer for 16 games and do it consistently? No. The NFL isn't Texas and at some point you have to beat NFL defenses from the pocket. As I said I like the guy as a backup but no way would I take him as a starter.

The QB situation here is just a nightmare. We're sitting around talking about John Beck, Grossman and Vince Young. That's pretty pathetic. I'd take Jason Campbell over all of those bums.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I was surprised at small amount of games Grossman has started in his career. Other than 2006 when he started 16 games, his next highest number is 8 games in 2007.

Year Starts
2003 3
2004 3
2005 2
2006 16
2007 8
2008 4
2009 1
2010 4

In 2006 where Grossman started 16 games he threw 20 interceptions. Last season Grossman threw 4 interceptions in just 4 games. Not good. This is a concern because Grossman has started 41 games and has already thrown 40 interceptions. He is a stop gap guy and that is all. I would rather play a young guy and let him learn then waste our time with Grossman who is never going to be elte.

The reason is he's simply not good enough to be a 16 game starter. The year they went to the SB was in spite of him. There were games where the defense flat out won games.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I don't know who my first choice is but after getting a refresher course in both Beck and Grossman I'm convinced now more then ever that they need to bring in Young for competition. Even if he has a blow up in the media. Shanahan's history suggest we'll be fine with Beck or Grossman but now I want to make absolutely sure.

Either way Grossman is clearly the best passer that...we have access to, only thing that gets in the way are these pesky fumbles weather they be from Rexy or other guys like Moss, but mostly Rexy.

The last thing we need is another head case like Young. Why would you want a QB when his current coach said if he stayes he will leave? Makes no sense unless your looking for someon that can hang around with Fat Albert.

[SmootSmack]

If Shanahan says he wants Young, I suspect Young may react better to playing for him than he did for Fisher, who never wanted him.

On the field, Young is so much better than Beck and Grossman (in my opinion). I'll take my chances with him off the field for what he can bring us on the field.

[celts32]

I never liked VY and couldn't imagine ever wanting him on the Redskins but when you look at our alternatives...

He is likely to be the only starting caliber QB available in free agency that is not passsed his prime. His character questions are not as big an issue to me since the contract will be small and he will not cost us trade compensation. Low risk...high reward. Sounds a lot better to me then Beck vs Rex...

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by firstdown

The last thing we need is another head case like Young. Why would you want a QB when his current coach said if he stayes he will leave? Makes no sense unless your looking for someon that can hang around with Fat Albert.

Because I'm afraid that not doing anything could easily lead to a situation only marginally better then Derrick Anderson and Max Hall. I mean don't get me wrong my mind changes on this every other minute, and Grossman in this system is certainly better then Derrick Anderson.

Still Young is easily one of the top physical specimens at the QB position today along with Vick, Newton, and Locker and we saw how giving a talented QB a chance paid off for the Eagles. We do not have a settled enough QB situation to just shrug off someone as talented as Young. Right now Young is the best combination of price, talent, potential, and hunger. Remember his feud in Tennessee started because he wanted to play hurt. Haynesworth on the other hand only wanted to play in nickel packages.

Besides comparing the problems with Young and Haynesworth is apples to oranges. Haynesworth is a true head case with serious issues. I'm not really scared anymore of bringing in Young because if/when we do he won't have a contract that makes him unmovable and above all I think Young himself is a good person thats simply had issues with depression.

Either way we'd be bringing him into compete and with our situation we don't really have that much to loose.